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Old 05-04-2018, 10:49 PM   #1
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Found this today.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...and_noteworthy

Yes there is a video, and no I cannot link it because it is not youtube.

From the link:

"We all know the system isn't working. The three richest Americans own more wealth than the bottom 160 million. By 2030 the top 1% of Americans will own more than 80% of the country's wealth. This obscene inequality has undermined our democracy. Class mobility has become a figment of the past — for the very first time in the United States this generation will be worse off than their parents. But none of this is new information. Everyone knows how bad things are. So what are we doing about it?"

It is amazing, one they are Using a Venture Capitalism construct to try to make a film to convince people of how much better Socialism is

But is also the base premise they are starting with. The "the system is the problem". That is what the liberalization of our education had done, it had created a generation that cannot see the real issues, only the faceless group buzz words so they can blame a non physical thing. Capitalism worked for a very long time and created a very wealthy nation. So what happen, who did a theoretical construct fail? It did not! The people failed it, and their nation. They decided that they no longer had to care about there fell man or their nation, there universe ended at their own finger tips. And when suddenly they felt the results of there action, they want to blame anyone other then themselves and have the government fix it because it too much effort for them to try to do anything themselves.

And lets face some facts, when Socialists say "the people own the means of production" that really means "the government owns the means of production"! Again doing back to my, "the Democratic party has always seeked dominion over people, since their founding" and this proves it yet again.
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Old 05-04-2018, 11:29 PM   #2
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The Left has captured social institutions like schools and use them to spread their propaganda.

If you look at things with a coldly dispassionate mind then Socialism has it all over Capitalism. Everyone working together for the common benefit has to be better than the wild distortions of Capitalism.

The only problem with Socialism is that it doesn't work. It has been tried a number of times and has failed. The reason for the failure is quite simple. The people who consider themselves to be true Socialists try to force the system on the rest of the population. As soon as they do that they fail as all the people are not working together but are being forced to do what an elite few want them to do, the elite few justifying everything by saying it's the will of the people.

Why would anyone put in long hours and study for years to become a doctor when they will gain no extra benefit from all that hard work?

The Principle of Enlightened Self Interest (PESI) is a better method. PESI states that you do what is best for you and the wider community. What is good for you but bad for the general community is actually detrimental to you in the long run. Under PESI you gain then rewards you have earned and give benefit to the community.

Politicians and lobbyists never follow the PESI principle. They're all out for what they can get, generally fame and fortune.

If you want to improve the current system, improve the politicians. Get politicians who are interested in the welfare of the electorate and the country as a whole. And don't follow fad science. Remember, eugenics was once scientific fact and everyone famous was in favour of it. Until they saw where Hitler went following eugenic guidelines.
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Old 05-05-2018, 12:19 AM   #3
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We all know the system isn't working. The three richest Americans own more wealth than the bottom 160 million.
I always thought that meant the system IS working.
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Old 05-05-2018, 12:51 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by garison808
Quote:
We all know the system isn't working.
The three richest Americans own more wealth than the bottom 160 million.
I always thought that meant the system IS working.
its working like hell for those 3 people
dont know how it would end up without all the rest though

thats where their money comes from you know
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Old 05-05-2018, 02:47 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by garison808
Quote:
We all know the system isn't working. The three richest Americans own more wealth than the bottom 160 million.
I always thought that meant the system IS working.

Only if you follow the teaching of Karl Marx, but then again you must since you said that.

You see that is part of the entire issue. The idea that Capitalism is broken, is far from true, but those that don't want to care saw such as a way to defend there unwilling to do care. Capitalism and The Republic go hand in hand, but both also require the people to care in order for them to continue.

It is amazing what the past 45 years of liberal control education had create for us, an entire generation that can't do for them selves, can't see how there inability to do is hurting the nation has a hold, and as such are more than wiling to give up there freedoms (or as one Socialist said "your Freedumbs") for the government to become their new mommy and daddy, so they think they can sit around all day playing video games and have everything they need given to them.
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Old 05-05-2018, 03:34 AM   #6
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I'm not sure if we should really stick with a system as fault-intolerant as that. I mean, socialism also works fine if people care about their fellow man, and it still works even if they don't.
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Old 05-05-2018, 03:57 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by darthbob88
I'm not sure if we should really stick with a system as fault-intolerant as that. I mean, socialism also works fine if people care about their fellow man, and it still works even if they don't.
True. It's been a hallmark of socialism that you quietly kill off all the people who are against the system as they are just a waste of resources.
20,000,000+ in Russia.
50,000,000+ in China
2,200,000+ in Cambodia from a population of 7,000,000+

For the survivors the system works splendidly. They'll be too scared to say it doesn't.
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Old 05-05-2018, 04:15 AM   #8
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I'm not sure if we should really stick with a system as fault-intolerant as that. I mean, socialism also works fine if people care about their fellow man, and it still works even if they don't.

Really, Socialism still works? Where? Where has Government ownership of the means of manufacture actually worked? And the people still have a choice? And before you said any of the northern European nation, see how hard it is to try a car other then a SAAB in Sweden! They use massive tariffs to defend there markets and maintain there tax base. Are you ready to tell, Sony, Toshiba, SAAB, BMW, Toyota, Honda, LG, Samsung, etc. to leave the U.S. Market?

Do you have a Smart Phone? Access to the Internet? Or any of the other things we commonly used in our daily lives? And next see were they were created? Now tell me the last great technology development that came out of any Socialist nation on earth? Would you be willing to give up a smart phone, you computer, etc. for this new Socialist Utopia you think will come into existence?

You see Socialism will not work when you do care, and there for it will not work when you don't care. So why do so many young people want it, because it means they are not responsible for anything, they can just blame the government, the old tokes, the CEO, the businesses, etc. because they can't care enough to even try to make a better nations for themselves. And you statement shows you are not will to do such either!
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Old 05-05-2018, 04:59 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by ASHSON
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthbob88
I'm not sure if we should really stick with a system as fault-intolerant as that. I mean, socialism also works fine if people care about their fellow man, and it still works even if they don't.
True. It's been a hallmark of socialism that you quietly kill off all the people who are against the system as they are just a waste of resources.
20,000,000+ in Russia.
50,000,000+ in China
2,200,000+ in Cambodia from a population of 7,000,000+

For the survivors the system works splendidly. They'll be too scared to say it doesn't.
If we're going to claim that the current inequality is just capitalism done wrong, then those are socialism done wrong. Try again.
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Old 05-05-2018, 05:00 AM   #10
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Boom. Shot, over.

#truth

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASHSON
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthbob88
I'm not sure if we should really stick with a system as fault-intolerant as that. I mean, socialism also works fine if people care about their fellow man, and it still works even if they don't.
True. It's been a hallmark of socialism that you quietly kill off all the people who are against the system as they are just a waste of resources.
20,000,000+ in Russia.
50,000,000+ in China
2,200,000+ in Cambodia from a population of 7,000,000+

For the survivors the system works splendidly. They'll be too scared to say it doesn't.
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Old 05-05-2018, 05:02 AM   #11
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This is also usually when the lefties point to Sweden and say, "Socialism works there".

Small sample size.

Also, Finland's universal basic income experiment failed. Bigly. Google it. Because the NY Times tries to defend it. Sadly.
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Old 05-05-2018, 05:25 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iron_warmonger
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthbob88
I'm not sure if we should really stick with a system as fault-intolerant as that. I mean, socialism also works fine if people care about their fellow man, and it still works even if they don't.

Really, Socialism still works? Where? Where has Government ownership of the means of manufacture actually worked? And the people still have a choice? And before you said any of the northern European nation, see how hard it is to try a car other then a SAAB in Sweden! They use massive tariffs to defend there markets and maintain there tax base. Are you ready to tell, Sony, Toshiba, SAAB, BMW, Toyota, Honda, LG, Samsung, etc. to leave the U.S. Market?
I'm not sure you of all people get to grumble about protectionist policies.
Quote:
Do you have a Smart Phone? Access to the Internet? Or any of the other things we commonly used in our daily lives? And next see were they were created? Now tell me the last great technology development that came out of any Socialist nation on earth? Would you be willing to give up a smart phone, you computer, etc. for this new Socialist Utopia you think will come into existence?
First- the Soviets did plenty of innovating, although admittedly that list is a trifle cluttered with things invented by Russians abroad and with military stuff that you're going to claim isn't real consumer-benefiting innovation. Second- Who says I'd have to? Market socialism, bitches! Just like market capitalism, except with less fucking-over-the-workers.
E: Third, a whole lot of the super-cool innovations you mention come from socialist innovations funded by the US government. Can you say ARPANET?
Quote:
You see Socialism will not work when you do care, and there for it will not work when you don't care. So why do so many young people want it, because it means they are not responsible for anything, they can just blame the government, the old tokes, the CEO, the businesses, etc. because they can't care enough to even try to make a better nations for themselves. And you statement shows you are not will to do such either!
You're a moron. Young people want socialism because it would let them actually afford rent.
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My posting is a PC-Optional zone. I reserve the right to refrain from using PC euphemisms, and to speak my opinion, fucknut.

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Old 05-05-2018, 06:01 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASHSON
True. It's been a hallmark of socialism that you quietly kill off all the people who are against the system as they are just a waste of resources.
20,000,000+ in Russia.
50,000,000+ in China
2,200,000+ in Cambodia from a population of 7,000,000+

For the survivors the system works splendidly. They'll be too scared to say it doesn't.
If we're going to claim that the current inequality is just capitalism done wrong, then those are socialism done wrong. Try again.
But that's the way Socialism works in practice, not theory.
Unless you can come up with a solution that overrides inbred genetic factors that go back to the year dot you're on a loser with socialism.
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Old 05-05-2018, 06:09 AM   #14
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You're a moron. Young people want socialism because it would let them actually afford rent.
You want rent you can afford?
Move out into the suburbs and ride a bicycle to the university or college of your choice. You don't need expensive housing in the middle of the city. You don't need a car to get around. Whining instead of doing is a loser's attitude.

You will find that if we actually had socialism that's what would happen to the students. They'd have cheap housing elsewhere and bikes to ride to school.

Unless people are prepared to put in you won't see the desired outcome. That's what's happening in universities today. The students don't want the hard grind so the universities are organizing easy courses, like Whiteness Studies. The students are being told don't work, demand as a right. Let someone else pay for it. Why the hell should someone else have to pay for them to go to school?

I will admit that the student loans system is one of the biggest con games in the US, a deliberate plan to set up and exploit students.
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Old 05-05-2018, 04:15 PM   #15
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If we're going to claim that the current inequality is just capitalism done wrong, then those are socialism done wrong. Try again.
But that's the way Socialism works in practice, not theory.
Unless you can come up with a solution that overrides inbred genetic factors that go back to the year dot you're on a loser with socialism.
Then this is how capitalism works in practice, not theory.
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You want rent you can afford?
Move out into the suburbs and ride a bicycle to the university or college of your choice. You don't need expensive housing in the middle of the city. You don't need a car to get around. Whining instead of doing is a loser's attitude.
That's actually already factored into their conclusion.
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The disparity between the Housing Wage needed to afford a rental home and workers’ wages results in a shortage of 7.4 million rental homes nationwide that are affordable and available to extremely low income households. More than 11 million rental households in the U.S. are spending more than half of their incomes on their housing, and hundreds of thousands go homeless on any given night, underscoring the need for greater investments in affordable housing solutions.
E: Plus, if they did move out to the suburbs, then we'd be talking about people struggling under an unreasonably expensive commute.
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Old 05-05-2018, 11:34 PM   #16
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Really, Socialism still works? Where? Where has Government ownership of the means of manufacture actually worked? And the people still have a choice? And before you said any of the northern European nation, see how hard it is to try a car other then a SAAB in Sweden! They use massive tariffs to defend there markets and maintain there tax base. Are you ready to tell, Sony, Toshiba, SAAB, BMW, Toyota, Honda, LG, Samsung, etc. to leave the U.S. Market?
I'm not sure you of all people get to grumble about protectionist policies.
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Do you have a Smart Phone? Access to the Internet? Or any of the other things we commonly used in our daily lives? And next see were they were created? Now tell me the last great technology development that came out of any Socialist nation on earth? Would you be willing to give up a smart phone, you computer, etc. for this new Socialist Utopia you think will come into existence?
First- the Soviets did plenty of innovating, although admittedly that list is a trifle cluttered with things invented by Russians abroad and with military stuff that you're going to claim isn't real consumer-benefiting innovation. Second- Who says I'd have to? Market socialism, bitches! Just like market capitalism, except with less fucking-over-the-workers.
E: Third, a whole lot of the super-cool innovations you mention come from socialist innovations funded by the US government. Can you say ARPANET?
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You see Socialism will not work when you do care, and there for it will not work when you don't care. So why do so many young people want it, because it means they are not responsible for anything, they can just blame the government, the old tokes, the CEO, the businesses, etc. because they can't care enough to even try to make a better nations for themselves. And you statement shows you are not will to do such either!
You're a moron. Young people want socialism because it would let them actually afford rent.

To start with several of the items on that list are of questionable source, in particular the Artificial heart in 1932, a Subway in Moscow, a country spanning rail road in the 20th century, and several others.

As per the rent issues, you get the Government and Economy you choose! If you only buy good made outside of the U.S. you eventually run out of money in the U.S. economy. So the more capital you sent to China, Japan, Germany, etc. the less there is in the U.S. It not that hard an equation. But how that is actually effecting them they start crying for someone else to fix it for them. There comes a point where responsibility had to be forced on people, and then can asked themselves if that PlayStation and Honda were really worth it. Perhaps they can live in the Honda
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Old 05-05-2018, 11:38 PM   #17
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But that's the way Socialism works in practice, not theory.
Unless you can come up with a solution that overrides inbred genetic factors that go back to the year dot you're on a loser with socialism.
Then this is how capitalism works in practice, not theory.

No that is how our current Feudalsic for of Capitalism we current have works, not the Capitalism that build the U.S. When you stopped caring about your fellow American, you said you don't care what happens to anyone! And thus you get the country and economy that you deserve.
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Old 05-05-2018, 11:41 PM   #18
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Plus, if they did move out to the suburbs, then we'd be talking about people struggling under an unreasonably expensive commute.
What's expensive about riding a bike?
In current traffic you could probably get there faster on a bike.
Plus it's healthy exercise.

I've known a couple of people who always rode their bikes to work. They were fit and thought nothing of the ride, even though it was quite a distance.

Even though riding a bike is a viable solution you're going out of your way to say they shouldn't have to. They should have everything handed to them.
Why? Why should we bend over backwards to help them when they won't help themselves. It's danegeld and danegeld is never satisfied. Whatever you do they will take it and then ask for something else. Why work when you can demand? And once you've demanded enough and been given enough you have the power to take the rest. The way the students are starting to dictate how the universities are run. Great for the current students. Not so great for the education system or the future of the country.
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Old 05-06-2018, 12:45 AM   #19
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I always thought that meant the system IS working.
Only if you follow the teaching of Karl Marx

Damn, are you stupid!

Marx was a Socialist, moron.

If the Free Enterprise System works, then some people will earn more than others. If one percent of the population controls most of the wealth, then the system is working.

But Liberals like you are more interested in "equality" than allowing Capitalism to work. You want to "share the wealth". Hah!
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Old 05-06-2018, 12:47 AM   #20
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You're a moron. Young people want socialism because it would let them actually afford rent.
You want rent you can afford?
Move out into the suburbs and ride a bicycle to the university or college of your choice. You don't need expensive housing in the middle of the city.

The problem with this idea is that Americans are lazy. There's not a single one of them that would be willing to bicycle forty miles back and forth to their university.
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