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Old 05-15-2018, 01:47 AM   #41
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If Darth has his way, 150%, but with Sanders, mostly likely 0%, there were be some special loop hold for a person that give the proper tidings to the DNC to get out of the new taxes.
TBH if we're going by "proper tithings" and "loopholes", Bill Gates would probably get off better, both because he can afford to take advantage of those loopholes and because he can drop fatter stacks on supporting the progressive cause. Beyond that, my understanding had been that he hadn't paid taxes in decades because he always gives enough to charity to cancel that out.

If he is not paying any actual taxes, then the Dem are setting up special loopholes for him!

I have done my own taxes for a number of years, and I use to do both my mother's and sister's as well. My mother use to donate around two grand a year to charities, because she needed the dedication, but would not pay one penny extra on her mortgage, again because she needed the dedication. My sister was to donate a piano she was left to her by our mother to a charity so she could get the dedication.

The problem is donations to a charity are dedication not credits!!! You only get to deduct what you give to a charity beyond the standard duration that everyone gets. And that would reduces the amount of income to pay taxes on. I spend a great deal of time trying to explain this to both my sister and mother, but they refused to understand it. And I also tried to explain how by paying extra interest to the bank, but not putting anything extra on your mortgage, you are paying three dollar to save one (she was in the 33% tax bracket).

So in order for Bill Gates to not have to pay any taxes on this 3 billion it woudl need to donate all but what the standard dedication is to charity! What does his family get there food from? Their Clothing? etc? See there are variou loop holes that he uses, and he gets those becase of the tiding he gives to the right people (like Obama and the DNC), and that would not change under Sanders. History of socialist nations, and the Democratic party, has proven that.
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Old 05-15-2018, 02:09 AM   #42
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TBH if we're going by "proper tithings" and "loopholes", Bill Gates would probably get off better, both because he can afford to take advantage of those loopholes and because he can drop fatter stacks on supporting the progressive cause. Beyond that, my understanding had been that he hadn't paid taxes in decades because he always gives enough to charity to cancel that out.
<snip>

So in order for Bill Gates to not have to pay any taxes on this 3 billion it woudl need to donate all but what the standard dedication is to charity! What does his family get there food from? Their Clothing? etc? See there are variou loop holes that he uses, and he gets those becase of the tiding he gives to the right people (like Obama and the DNC), and that would not change under Sanders. History of socialist nations, and the Democratic party, has proven that.
Not so much, actually. Unless you want to talk about Donald Trump supporting the Democratic Party, in which case we're past the point of anything meaning anything.
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Old 05-15-2018, 03:17 AM   #43
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<snip>

So in order for Bill Gates to not have to pay any taxes on this 3 billion it woudl need to donate all but what the standard dedication is to charity! What does his family get there food from? Their Clothing? etc? See there are variou loop holes that he uses, and he gets those becase of the tiding he gives to the right people (like Obama and the DNC), and that would not change under Sanders. History of socialist nations, and the Democratic party, has proven that.
Not so much, actually. Unless you want to talk about Donald Trump supporting the Democratic Party, in which case we're past the point of anything meaning anything.


Nice way of avoiding the subject then trying to change it. Gates doesn't pay taxes on the 3 billion in part to he never sees the 3 billion. It is just money floating around. It is not true earnings. So exactly what would you tax on bill gates when he doesn't actually have the cash in his hand. You talk big, but when reality sets in of how things work you avoid the real point. And again how much of the 3 billion is actually taxable.
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Old 05-15-2018, 04:53 AM   #44
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<snip>

So in order for Bill Gates to not have to pay any taxes on this 3 billion it woudl need to donate all but what the standard dedication is to charity! What does his family get there food from? Their Clothing? etc? See there are variou loop holes that he uses, and he gets those becase of the tiding he gives to the right people (like Obama and the DNC), and that would not change under Sanders. History of socialist nations, and the Democratic party, has proven that.
Not so much, actually. Unless you want to talk about Donald Trump supporting the Democratic Party, in which case we're past the point of anything meaning anything.

But you said that "Bill Gates had avoided pay taxes for decades by donation to charities" I have show that that is not true. Now you counter with a "but Trump" argument. It has no point in this debate. The issue is how wealthy Democratic would still avoid paying taxes under Sanders, so again, who will Sanders pay for all this give away free for you programs?
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Old 05-15-2018, 05:14 AM   #45
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Not so much, actually. Unless you want to talk about Donald Trump supporting the Democratic Party, in which case we're past the point of anything meaning anything.

But you said that "Bill Gates had avoided pay taxes for decades by donation to charities" I have show that that is not true. Now you counter with a "but Trump" argument. It has no point in this debate. The issue is how wealthy Democratic would still avoid paying taxes under Sanders, so again, who will Sanders pay for all this give away free for you programs?
It's not "but Trump", it's "also Trump". Trump paid 0 tax because of those loopholes, so unless you want to argue that he was also one of those wealthy Democratic supporters, your argument that these loopholes were kickbacks in return for support kinda suffers.
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Old 05-15-2018, 08:40 AM   #46
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But you said that "Bill Gates had avoided pay taxes for decades by donation to charities" I have show that that is not true. Now you counter with a "but Trump" argument. It has no point in this debate. The issue is how wealthy Democratic would still avoid paying taxes under Sanders, so again, who will Sanders pay for all this give away free for you programs?
It's not "but Trump", it's "also Trump". Trump paid 0 tax because of those loopholes, so unless you want to argue that he was also one of those wealthy Democratic supporters, your argument that these loopholes were kickbacks in return for support kinda suffers.

Every time we see a Democratic running for election they say, "we are going to make the rich pay their fair share", but after winning office that statement is no where to be seen. When has any democratic elected to office actually one anything about anyone not paying their fair share? Can you side a bill or even a speech before congress doing anything about it? Reagan suggested a simple flat tax system, but both sides fought against it! Why because it got rid of the loop wholes they used to get donations! So you really believe that Sanders after how man years in congress is any different? And that bets the question if the dems have never actually done anything about this, why do you continue to believe they ever will?
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Old 05-16-2018, 12:34 AM   #47
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It's not "but Trump", it's "also Trump". Trump paid 0 tax because of those loopholes, so unless you want to argue that he was also one of those wealthy Democratic supporters, your argument that these loopholes were kickbacks in return for support kinda suffers.

Every time we see a Democratic running for election they say, "we are going to make the rich pay their fair share", but after winning office that statement is no where to be seen. When has any democratic elected to office actually one anything about anyone not paying their fair share? Can you side a bill or even a speech before congress doing anything about it? Reagan suggested a simple flat tax system, but both sides fought against it! Why because it got rid of the loop wholes they used to get donations! So you really believe that Sanders after how man years in congress is any different? And that bets the question if the dems have never actually done anything about this, why do you continue to believe they ever will?
Mostly because Democrats being beholden to billionaires is an unfortunate fact, but not inescapable. Bernie actually managed to beat Hillary in fundraising, almost entirely off of small donors. After that, the Democrats would be able to do something about those billionaires.

Also, there are plenty of other reasons to oppose a flat tax other than its effect on billionaires. Its effects on the 99%, for one.
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Old 05-16-2018, 01:05 AM   #48
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Every time we see a Democratic running for election they say, "we are going to make the rich pay their fair share", but after winning office that statement is no where to be seen. When has any democratic elected to office actually one anything about anyone not paying their fair share? Can you side a bill or even a speech before congress doing anything about it? Reagan suggested a simple flat tax system, but both sides fought against it! Why because it got rid of the loop wholes they used to get donations! So you really believe that Sanders after how man years in congress is any different? And that bets the question if the dems have never actually done anything about this, why do you continue to believe they ever will?
Mostly because Democrats being beholden to billionaires is an unfortunate fact, but not inescapable. Bernie actually managed to beat Hillary in fundraising, almost entirely off of small donors. After that, the Democrats would be able to do something about those billionaires.

Also, there are plenty of other reasons to oppose a flat tax other than its effect on billionaires. Its effects on the 99%, for one.

Almost is not entirely, that is am important point. And he could not have been in office this long with out the support of wealthy, it a issue of our times. You appear to be doing everything possible to justly the action of the Democrats. Perhaps it is time to wake up to the truth.
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Old 05-16-2018, 01:46 AM   #49
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Mostly because Democrats being beholden to billionaires is an unfortunate fact, but not inescapable. Bernie actually managed to beat Hillary in fundraising, almost entirely off of small donors. After that, the Democrats would be able to do something about those billionaires.

Also, there are plenty of other reasons to oppose a flat tax other than its effect on billionaires. Its effects on the 99%, for one.

Almost is not entirely, that is am important point. And he could not have been in office this long with out the support of wealthy, it a issue of our times. You appear to be doing everything possible to justly the action of the Democrats. Perhaps it is time to wake up to the truth.
The truth isn't much better, though. I can and frankly do accept that the Democrats aren't going to come through on raising taxes on the wealthy like I want them to. The GOP, though, campaign on cutting taxes on the wealthy, so they are clearly not the people I want to back, for that and many other reasons. As for the rest, I like the Social Democrats, and if they ever got more than a rounding error's worth of votes I might stump for them, while the Libertarians are as bad as the Republicans for "opposing things I support". The truth is, the Democrats are the best party for me.
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Old 05-16-2018, 06:41 AM   #50
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Almost is not entirely, that is am important point. And he could not have been in office this long with out the support of wealthy, it a issue of our times. You appear to be doing everything possible to justly the action of the Democrats. Perhaps it is time to wake up to the truth.
The truth isn't much better, though. I can and frankly do accept that the Democrats aren't going to come through on raising taxes on the wealthy like I want them to. The GOP, though, campaign on cutting taxes on the wealthy, so they are clearly not the people I want to back, for that and many other reasons. As for the rest, I like the Social Democrats, and if they ever got more than a rounding error's worth of votes I might stump for them, while the Libertarians are as bad as the Republicans for "opposing things I support". The truth is, the Democrats are the best party for me.


I loved how you got backed into a corner on this one, so you switched up from all the great supposed things that socialism will do to well it my opinion and this party is what I agree with it. So next round you claim that your opinion is being attacked so you got an out.
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Old 05-16-2018, 12:20 PM   #51
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I can understand that. And, frankly, I think a fair amount of people feel the same way about their chosen party. They aren't perfect but better than the opposition.


The truth isn't much better, though. I can and frankly do accept that the Democrats aren't going to come through on raising taxes on the wealthy like I want them to. The GOP, though, campaign on cutting taxes on the wealthy, so they are clearly not the people I want to back, for that and many other reasons. As for the rest, I like the Social Democrats, and if they ever got more than a rounding error's worth of votes I might stump for them, while the Libertarians are as bad as the Republicans for "opposing things I support". The truth is, the Democrats are the best party for me.[/quote]
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Old 05-16-2018, 11:22 PM   #52
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Almost is not entirely, that is am important point. And he could not have been in office this long with out the support of wealthy, it a issue of our times. You appear to be doing everything possible to justly the action of the Democrats. Perhaps it is time to wake up to the truth.
The truth isn't much better, though. I can and frankly do accept that the Democrats aren't going to come through on raising taxes on the wealthy like I want them to. The GOP, though, campaign on cutting taxes on the wealthy, so they are clearly not the people I want to back, for that and many other reasons. As for the rest, I like the Social Democrats, and if they ever got more than a rounding error's worth of votes I might stump for them, while the Libertarians are as bad as the Republicans for "opposing things I support". The truth is, the Democrats are the best party for me.

I see things in much the same way, but with a few more details.

The Libertarians are just Republicans that want to take drugs.

The Tea Party is the Feudalism part, everything should be perfect for me, but no one else even deserves the air they are breathing.

The Republicans, use to care, but have become way too much in the pocket of the right wing lobbyists. And Personally I would like to see Dick Cheney brought before congress, along with Dr. Savage of Dartmouth college, and have him under oath tell us were the better from from Outsourcing are, and so prove his data points of how 2 hobs were created in the U.S. for every jobs shipped to or created by American companies in china.

The Social Democratic, aka the Progressive, are living in a fantasy world, Socialism had never worked, and even the nations they are pointing to are still in an experimental stages on most of what they are demanding.

As per the Actual Democrats. They are the party of many promises but no carry though. They said, and there defenders say such, what they know there voters want to hear to get elected, but then blame everything under the sun for why they can't do it. And there brain dead sheep follower believe it election after election, think this time it will be different.

And Personally they are responsible for much of the pain in my life, the destruction of my hopes and dreams, and throwing me under the bus with out so much as a second thought! And they still say they want to do more to punish those they don't like. Well if my life needed to be destroyed because of slavery, that ended 105 year before I was born, and 30 years before any ancestors of mine came to the U.S., then why doesn't Ben Aflick have to pay the same price I have, since he is actually descended from slave owners? But he is a good party member, so he does not need to suffer for the actions of his ancestors or those that share a common genetic background with him!

They are the party of two sets of rules, which they apply as necessary to punish those they don't like and give a free pass to does they do. They seen dominion over others, and what to control all aspects of everyone else lives.

So I have reached the point were I lo longer look at what a person's party is, but what there personally platform is. And I know that most of it will be a lie, regardless of who they are, it the nature of U.S. politics any more. So I vote for who is going to screw me the least.
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Old 05-17-2018, 12:43 PM   #53
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Yeah, the whole rules for thee but not me thing...

Ben Affleck was found to have a slaveholding relative while on the PBS show "Find Your Roots". So, he demanded the show hide that part of his genealogy. And, they did. The truth was only uncovered because of North Korea's hack of Sony and emails were published showing that PBS complied with Affleck's demands and the episode made no mention of his family's slaveholding past.

First of all, let's say Karl Rove went on that show and they found his family had slaves. And, Karl asks them not to reveal it. Any chance the show complies? No. Not a snowball's chance in hell.

Hustler Magazine used to have an "Asshole of the Month" feature. I don't even know if Hustler is still around. But, Ben Affleck should be the Asshole of the Month in every issue.


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Originally Posted by iron_warmonger

then why doesn't Ben Aflick have to pay the same price I have, since he is actually descended from slave owners? But he is a good party member, so he does not need to suffer for the actions of his ancestors or those that share a common genetic background with him!

They are the party of two sets of rules, which they apply as necessary to punish those they don't like and give a free pass to does they do. They seen dominion over others, and what to control all aspects of everyone else lives.
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