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Trayvon Martin
Any thoughts on the Trayvon Martin case? I can tell you right now that if I had to listen to my 17 year old 140 pound child wail for help while a 250 pound man beat cornered and killed him there would be at least one person in jail when I was finished. This story is amazing. Zimmerman decides that he is "neighborhood watch". Fine. He calls police. Fine. He tells police that he sees a suspicious bot who looks like he is up to no good and is on drugs or something. Not fine. He then is told by the police to not follow Trayvon, he chooses to follow him anyway, saying that these assholes always get away. Zimmerman then leaves his car and confronts this child, wrestles and shoots him. He escapes with a claim of self defense?
When the police tell you that they have it under control and to get away, then you choose not to. How can the self defense claim be reasonable?
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This will go unresolved. There's no evidence of what happened either way, so the D.A. will be reluctant to prosecute. The family will be better of in civil court.
Someone will end up investigating the boy's personality and lifestyle. He was suspended for a reason, and that reason will play into the guy's defense. If he was suspended for fighting, for example, that adds credence to the guy's story.
My guess is, the guy confronted the kid, who may or may not have sassed him back. Then the guy pulled a gun, and the kid started pleading for his life, so the guy shot him to shut him up. And he probably won't spend a single day in prison.
Just completely and utterly ridiculous. Hurray lets jump to conclusions and kill someone in cold blood as after all it was a teenager and they attack people for no reason so I'd better use self defence and protect myself...
The problem is the "Stand your ground" law, which is overreaction to a previous overreach in defining when use of deadly force is allowable in self defense. A knotty problem with likely no solution...
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I had heard about the case in passing. I just read the link you provided. Its hard to tell what the facts are in the case. There's lots of allegations which may or may not be valid. You could probably pick either side and go crazy with painting a picture of how it went down.
Let them investigate it. If there's nothing to hide then there's nothing to fear, I guess.
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Originally Posted by HoratioBrock
Any thoughts on the Trayvon Martin case? I can tell you right now that if I had to listen to my 17 year old 140 pound child wail for help while a 250 pound man beat cornered and killed him there would be at least one person in jail when I was finished. This story is amazing. Zimmerman decides that he is "neighborhood watch". Fine. He calls police. Fine. He tells police that he sees a suspicious bot who looks like he is up to no good and is on drugs or something. Not fine. He then is told by the police to not follow Trayvon, he chooses to follow him anyway, saying that these assholes always get away. Zimmerman then leaves his car and confronts this child, wrestles and shoots him. He escapes with a claim of self defense?
When the police tell you that they have it under control and to get away, then you choose not to. How can the self defense claim be reasonable?
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I have damn little confidence that the Florida authorities will do anything about this, but I note that the Justice Department has started an investigation. There have been murder cases where the local/state courts have not acted but the Federal courts have successfully prosecuted the murderer of "denial of civil rights." [What does that say about the claim that "the government" is useless and doesn't care about people?]
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There's plenty here to fear Stud, did you hear the 911 tapes? This guy was stalking the kid and asked directly by the police to stop. He didn't, instead he initiated an altercation in which he later claimed self defense. Self defense? A 250 pound man fighting a 140 pound child, the kid is armed with a bag of skittles. That's it.
Reminds me of Mississippi in the 60's. This is nothing but tragic.
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He's wearing his hoody because it's raining he's walking funny because he's probably trying not to get his feet wet, he walk towards the car because he wants to know why he's being followed. He runs because he's scared. He's killed not necessarily because he is black, but certainly because this man assumed he was up to no good or on drugs because he was black.
This man was told to stay in the car, and @ 3:38 he says "these assholes, they always get away" Which means George was gonna make sure this child was not getting away. Sad.
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Last edited by HoratioBrock : 03-20-2012 at 07:25 PM.
I feel citizens and residents should have a right to defend themselves and their neighbors. I don't think it's right to take that away from them but with the info we have it sounds like this guy was in the wrong and should be investigated further. Im not sold on it being racially motivated.
What made Trayvon looke suspicious and seem like he was up to no good or on drugs? All Zimmerman knew about the kid was he was black, nothing else.
And he was Hispanic. We do not know if this was a racially motivated attack. This comes down to a He Said She said kind of argument I think. There were no (as far as I know) camera's there. We don't know exactly what went down. There is (at this point) some pretty serious reasonable doubt.
I like castle and stand your ground law.
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All over the news tonight and with tapes from 911 showing that he was told not to follow him and to stop as well as showing that he used a racial slur in his description of the kid isn't going over well.
Then there is the tape of the convo from the kid with his girlfriend stating someone is following him and then him actually asking why the guy was following him. The guy responding with what you doing around here.
It's a fucked up situation that likely had racial undertones but it is being blown out of proportion.
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Don't they also have phone records to prove that he (Trayvon) was talking to someone on the phone at the time of the attack? And that the person on the other side of the phone has a story that mostly corroborates with the 911 tape?
random observation so far in this thread: those that generaly lean democrat or at least anti-republican are outraged by this. those that lean republican/anti-democrat are saying "we don't know what happened, lets not jump to conclusions, etc".
i don't understand how this guy wasn't arrested. if somebody shoots someone and it's not an obvious self defense scenario (like a robber breaking into your house), how do you not arrest the guy, question him, etc?
i'm obviously not familiar with your laws over there, but it just seems ridiculous to me.
edit: i just read up on the new Florida "Stand Your Ground" law. i'm even more speechless now. seems like you can legally kill anyone, anywhere without even being arrested, as long as there are no witnesses and you claim it was self defence. not to mention that in this particular case, i don't even see how "stand your ground" applies, the guy was following someone he thought looked suspicious against the advice of 911. he wasn't standing his ground, he was looking for a confrontation.
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