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Old 03-26-2017, 05:44 AM   #41
65dart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tracer_bullet77
Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
Anecdotal story warning here. A good female friend of mine went through some health issues last year and lost her job because she missed several weeks of work. In short, she suffers from chronic depression as well as fibromyalgia. Nothing, at this point, that can be classified as "disabling". But, she's not working. Just by reporting that she was making zero dollars, she easily got on an insurance plan that costs her $2 a month. No copays. Very little in rx costs. So, now she goes to the doctor for any little thing that concerns her. And, why not? Its "free".

But, someone is paying for that. The poor schmuck of a family that is middle class and has seen their monthly premiums go from $350 to $800. They're paying for it. The single person that now pays double in premiums and has seen their deductibles get higher and copays get higher - they pay for that.

So, Obamacare has been a huge entitlement program at the expense of all the people that actually pay for their health care.

This is the kind of argument I love and revisit this sub-forum. And this is the kind of reasoning which gave me lot of encouragement to start posting in MD. I made it no secret that I am politically ignorant, and I learn a lot from these kind of threads. I may not agree, but I read every line seriously.

So Infantry - here is my general reasoning. I don't understand Obamacare, and I am pretty much sure nobody does. I did some googling, and pretty much I got confused as there are both sides of the story. Apparently it is forcing everyone to have a health-care - I can not agree more (why should I pay for you when you dont want to foot the bill); but at the same time even the best advocates are saying it is immensely complicated, and raised the cost of health-care in short term.

I have my company plan, so I don't have much flexibility (company contributes - if I quit the plan my premium will be doubled). But overall, with my limited understanding I liked ACA. No reason why Trump will repeal it, and if he does, it will be one of the real damage as mentioned in the beginning of the thread. Thoughts?

The aca is very confusing, but overall its horrible. Yes I hear the screams of it gave so many people health care, ect, ect. And when ever it comes up as horrible that is about the only defense they can come up with is how much it helped the poor. What they fail to state is the damage it has to done to people that were already paying for their own health care before the bill came to law. It ignores the damage it has done to blue collar, and middle class workers. It simply flaunts the damges it has done to small businesses. But as I'm seeing more and more liberals don't give a shit what damage they do as long as the poor benifit.
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Old 03-26-2017, 12:42 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
The GOP by passing a shitty bill, was about to take ownership of the failing Obamacare. The GOP bill was going to do nothing to reduce the cost of healthcare. Just like Obamacare did nothing to reduce the cost of healthcare for most Americans.

This healthcare stuff is incredibly complicated. And, yes, the GOP is guilty of running against Obamacare yet not having a viable plan to fix it.

And, it all depends on your definition of "fix".

The Democrats basically pushed us a lot further to the left and inched us toward socialized medicine. They knew they couldn't get what they really wanted - single payer, socialized medicine. So, they came up with Obamacare which they lied to get passed into law. But, it didn't make healthcare cheaper for most. In fact, it made it more expensive. It became damn near free for a lot of people.

Anecdotal story warning here. A good female friend of mine went through some health issues last year and lost her job because she missed several weeks of work. In short, she suffers from chronic depression as well as fibromyalgia. Nothing, at this point, that can be classified as "disabling". But, she's not working. Just by reporting that she was making zero dollars, she easily got on an insurance plan that costs her $2 a month. No copays. Very little in rx costs. So, now she goes to the doctor for any little thing that concerns her. And, why not? Its "free".

But, someone is paying for that. The poor schmuck of a family that is middle class and has seen their monthly premiums go from $350 to $800. They're paying for it. The single person that now pays double in premiums and has seen their deductibles get higher and copays get higher - they pay for that.

So, Obamacare has been a huge entitlement program at the expense of all the people that actually pay for their health care.

I wish the GOP good luck in rolling back entitlements that Obamacare granted to millions of people. Many receiving those entitlements, quite honestly, probably voted for the GOP and/or Trump.

I cannot see any clear way out of this mess. And, shame on the GOP for promising a way out when they have to know there isn't an easy way out that people will stomach.



Quote:
Originally Posted by tracer_bullet77

Do you ever tire of giving the same stupid person's impression of a smart person schpiel that you always give? Because whenever you try and claim that Obamacare was a "liberal solution to move us further to socialized medicine," you're disqualifying yourself from any real discussion.

But I guess that's what should be expected. When one side was interested in fixing healthcare, the other side was howling about death panels. Now that they're in charge of the government, they're showing that they have no idea what to do. The dog finally caught the car, essentially.
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Old 03-26-2017, 12:44 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65dart
Quote:
Originally Posted by tracer_bullet77

This is the kind of argument I love and revisit this sub-forum. And this is the kind of reasoning which gave me lot of encouragement to start posting in MD. I made it no secret that I am politically ignorant, and I learn a lot from these kind of threads. I may not agree, but I read every line seriously.

So Infantry - here is my general reasoning. I don't understand Obamacare, and I am pretty much sure nobody does. I did some googling, and pretty much I got confused as there are both sides of the story. Apparently it is forcing everyone to have a health-care - I can not agree more (why should I pay for you when you dont want to foot the bill); but at the same time even the best advocates are saying it is immensely complicated, and raised the cost of health-care in short term.

I have my company plan, so I don't have much flexibility (company contributes - if I quit the plan my premium will be doubled). But overall, with my limited understanding I liked ACA. No reason why Trump will repeal it, and if he does, it will be one of the real damage as mentioned in the beginning of the thread. Thoughts?

The aca is very confusing, but overall its horrible. Yes I hear the screams of it gave so many people health care, ect, ect. And when ever it comes up as horrible that is about the only defense they can come up with is how much it helped the poor. What they fail to state is the damage it has to done to people that were already paying for their own health care before the bill came to law. It ignores the damage it has done to blue collar, and middle class workers. It simply flaunts the damges it has done to small businesses. But as I'm seeing more and more liberals don't give a shit what damage they do as long as the poor benifit.

It made the healthcare system better than it was before, and it's the only plan we've got since Republicans clearly have no interest in actual governance. So as imperfect as it is, it's all we've really got.
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Old 03-26-2017, 05:13 PM   #44
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Ignorant Cockstain (If that's the name you really want to go by from now one...) -

I'm sorry you don't understand Obamacare.

No need in lashing out at others when you don't understand something. But, for you, that's typical behavior.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShuGuy
Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
The GOP by passing a shitty bill, was about to take ownership of the failing Obamacare. The GOP bill was going to do nothing to reduce the cost of healthcare. Just like Obamacare did nothing to reduce the cost of healthcare for most Americans.

This healthcare stuff is incredibly complicated. And, yes, the GOP is guilty of running against Obamacare yet not having a viable plan to fix it.

And, it all depends on your definition of "fix".

The Democrats basically pushed us a lot further to the left and inched us toward socialized medicine. They knew they couldn't get what they really wanted - single payer, socialized medicine. So, they came up with Obamacare which they lied to get passed into law. But, it didn't make healthcare cheaper for most. In fact, it made it more expensive. It became damn near free for a lot of people.

Anecdotal story warning here. A good female friend of mine went through some health issues last year and lost her job because she missed several weeks of work. In short, she suffers from chronic depression as well as fibromyalgia. Nothing, at this point, that can be classified as "disabling". But, she's not working. Just by reporting that she was making zero dollars, she easily got on an insurance plan that costs her $2 a month. No copays. Very little in rx costs. So, now she goes to the doctor for any little thing that concerns her. And, why not? Its "free".

But, someone is paying for that. The poor schmuck of a family that is middle class and has seen their monthly premiums go from $350 to $800. They're paying for it. The single person that now pays double in premiums and has seen their deductibles get higher and copays get higher - they pay for that.

So, Obamacare has been a huge entitlement program at the expense of all the people that actually pay for their health care.

I wish the GOP good luck in rolling back entitlements that Obamacare granted to millions of people. Many receiving those entitlements, quite honestly, probably voted for the GOP and/or Trump.

I cannot see any clear way out of this mess. And, shame on the GOP for promising a way out when they have to know there isn't an easy way out that people will stomach.




Do you ever tire of giving the same stupid person's impression of a smart person schpiel that you always give? Because whenever you try and claim that Obamacare was a "liberal solution to move us further to socialized medicine," you're disqualifying yourself from any real discussion.

But I guess that's what should be expected. When one side was interested in fixing healthcare, the other side was howling about death panels. Now that they're in charge of the government, they're showing that they have no idea what to do. The dog finally caught the car, essentially.
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Old 03-26-2017, 05:52 PM   #45
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The female friend I mentioned? Multiply that by thousands and millions. Her paying $2 a month for healthcare with no copays and paying pennies for prescriptions is not "free". The rest of us pay for that.

Obamacare made insurance affordable for her, no doubt! And, all it took was a phone call to say, "I lost my job and don't have healthcare coverage". Boom, she got on a $2 a month plan. Like I said previously, she's not truly disabled. She can work at least part time. It was incredibly easy for her to get that insurance. So, for her, Obamacare is a godsend, a gold mine, or whatever else you want to call it.

But somewhere else, a middle class family that didn't qualify for subsidies is paying for her coverage by paying a LOT more for their own healthcare.

Obamacare premiums jumped 22% in 2017. And, when you click on the article and read it, most of those plans are so expensive to actually get healthcare that they are essentially worthless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by from the article
In 2017, the average deductible for individuals on the lowest-priced bronze exchange plan will cross the $6,000 threshold for the first time. For families enrolled in these plans -- the least generous, in terms of benefits -- the average deductible will be about $12,000.

What help are premium subsidies to a low-income family paying $12,000 a year before their coverage even kicks in?

So, yes for some Americans, Obamacare is a massive entitlement and they likely love it. And, to the GOP, I say "good luck" in prying away that entitlement from them.

And, the GOP "freedom caucus" that voted against it - they are the ones wanting to take away the entitlements that Obamacare created. Of course, they are going to be the bad guys in all of this.

Like I said, this is really complicated. Neither Obamacare or what the GOP wanted to do was going to make healthcare more affordable. I have said on here the GOP screwed the pooch on this whole thing. They should have never promised anything until they had a plan. They don't have a plan because the entitlement toothpaste is already squeezed out of the tube. It doesn't go back in so easily.

To use another analogy, the Democrats essentially created a money pit of a ponzi scheme with Obamacare that has massive giveaways. And, I have seen both the beneficiaries as well as the ones saddled with much higher insurance costs. The Republicans were fools for thinking they could fix this in a fiscally responsible way. They can't. They'll end up "owning" this disaster and let the Democrats off the hook for creating the mess.

I believe the Democrats - wittingly or unwittingly - put us on the path to government controlled healthcare. If you can't rollback the entitlements then that means you will likely have to create more entitlements to help those that are increasingly affected by higher premiums. And, to offset that, you have to charge the people able to pay a lot more. We are already seeing that with Obamacare.

I was never a believer in socialized medicine but people can't continue to pay tens of thousands of dollars a year in healthcare costs with our stagnant wages.

The GOPs plans will be eaten alive by the media and the ever increasing amount of people who are accustomed to entitlements. Once you give people something, in their mind, it becomes a right. And, if you try to pry it away from them then you are labeled "cruel", "heartless" or you "don't care that millions will lose coverage". This morning I watched Fox News Sunday and Chris Wallace had Jim Jordan R-OH for breakfast over the health care fight. Jordan is part of this "freedom caucus" who dug in and essentially saved Obamacare because they wanted to completely repeal it rather than negotiate. Jordan argued for a clean repeal of Obamacare. Wallace said, and I'm paraphrasing - "what about the people that will lose coverage"? Jordan effectively had no answer. So, there's your narrative. Meany GOP takes away people's healthcare. And, its not an incorrect narrative.

Obamacare was essentially Santa Claus for many getting the $2 a month health care plan through subsidies. The GOP wants to come take that away and give people a lump of coal? Good luck with that.

I'm not nearly as partisan as some people think I am - especially on this issue.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tracer_bullet77
Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
Anecdotal story warning here. A good female friend of mine went through some health issues last year and lost her job because she missed several weeks of work. In short, she suffers from chronic depression as well as fibromyalgia. Nothing, at this point, that can be classified as "disabling". But, she's not working. Just by reporting that she was making zero dollars, she easily got on an insurance plan that costs her $2 a month. No copays. Very little in rx costs. So, now she goes to the doctor for any little thing that concerns her. And, why not? Its "free".

But, someone is paying for that. The poor schmuck of a family that is middle class and has seen their monthly premiums go from $350 to $800. They're paying for it. The single person that now pays double in premiums and has seen their deductibles get higher and copays get higher - they pay for that.

So, Obamacare has been a huge entitlement program at the expense of all the people that actually pay for their health care.

This is the kind of argument I love and revisit this sub-forum. And this is the kind of reasoning which gave me lot of encouragement to start posting in MD. I made it no secret that I am politically ignorant, and I learn a lot from these kind of threads. I may not agree, but I read every line seriously.

So Infantry - here is my general reasoning. I don't understand Obamacare, and I am pretty much sure nobody does. I did some googling, and pretty much I got confused as there are both sides of the story. Apparently it is forcing everyone to have a health-care - I can not agree more (why should I pay for you when you dont want to foot the bill); but at the same time even the best advocates are saying it is immensely complicated, and raised the cost of health-care in short term.

I have my company plan, so I don't have much flexibility (company contributes - if I quit the plan my premium will be doubled). But overall, with my limited understanding I liked ACA. No reason why Trump will repeal it, and if he does, it will be one of the real damage as mentioned in the beginning of the thread. Thoughts?
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Old 03-26-2017, 08:02 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by ShuGuy
Quote:
Originally Posted by 65dart

The aca is very confusing, but overall its horrible. Yes I hear the screams of it gave so many people health care, ect, ect. And when ever it comes up as horrible that is about the only defense they can come up with is how much it helped the poor. What they fail to state is the damage it has to done to people that were already paying for their own health care before the bill came to law. It ignores the damage it has done to blue collar, and middle class workers. It simply flaunts the damges it has done to small businesses. But as I'm seeing more and more liberals don't give a shit what damage they do as long as the poor benifit.

It made the healthcare system better than it was before, and it's the only plan we've got since Republicans clearly have no interest in actual governance. So as imperfect as it is, it's all we've really got.

And do tell how it made the healthcare system better. The only ones I hear saying the health care system is better are the poor. And of course they say it is better because they now have health care and don't have to pay a dime for it. Other than that everyone else has nothing bad things to say about it.

As far as republicans go, from what I can tell so far what made the republican bill so horrible was the compromises they made in hopes of getting democratic support. The democrats continue to be stubborn so even with compromises they refused the play. The compromises caused the republicans to pull support. So the refusal to govern dosen't just fall on the republicans. It is falling on both sides.
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Old 03-26-2017, 09:36 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by 65dart
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Originally Posted by ShuGuy

It made the healthcare system better than it was before, and it's the only plan we've got since Republicans clearly have no interest in actual governance. So as imperfect as it is, it's all we've really got.

And do tell how it made the healthcare system better. The only ones I hear saying the health care system is better are the poor. And of course they say it is better because they now have health care and don't have to pay a dime for it. Other than that everyone else has nothing bad things to say about it.

As far as republicans go, from what I can tell so far what made the republican bill so horrible was the compromises they made in hopes of getting democratic support. The democrats continue to be stubborn so even with compromises they refused the play. The compromises caused the republicans to pull support. So the refusal to govern dosen't just fall on the republicans. It is falling on both sides.


Lolwut

There were no "compromises for Democrats." I don't know where to begin with how wrong that statement is.
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Old 03-26-2017, 09:41 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by infantrystud
Ignorant Cockstain (If that's the name you really want to go by from now one...) -

I'm sorry you don't understand Obamacare.

No need in lashing out at others when you don't understand something. But, for you, that's typical behavior.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShuGuy

Do you ever tire of giving the same stupid person's impression of a smart person schpiel that you always give? Because whenever you try and claim that Obamacare was a "liberal solution to move us further to socialized medicine," you're disqualifying yourself from any real discussion.

But I guess that's what should be expected. When one side was interested in fixing healthcare, the other side was howling about death panels. Now that they're in charge of the government, they're showing that they have no idea what to do. The dog finally caught the car, essentially.

Honestly, it's like you've got a pull string I can yank every time I want to hear incoherent bullshit.

Obamacare was the most capitalistic answer to the question of how to have universal healthcare. All of your whining about it points to reform, not repeal. Something the dingbats you helped elect realized after trying to put together a replacement.
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Old 03-27-2017, 01:38 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by 65dart

And do tell how it made the healthcare system better. The only ones I hear saying the health care system is better are the poor. And of course they say it is better because they now have health care and don't have to pay a dime for it. Other than that everyone else has nothing bad things to say about it.

As far as republicans go, from what I can tell so far what made the republican bill so horrible was the compromises they made in hopes of getting democratic support. The democrats continue to be stubborn so even with compromises they refused the play. The compromises caused the republicans to pull support. So the refusal to govern dosen't just fall on the republicans. It is falling on both sides.


Lolwut

There were no "compromises for Democrats." I don't know where to begin with how wrong that statement is.

Please do begin. Tell me all that's wrong with it because so far you have not said a thing except catch phrase from left wing news.
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Old 03-27-2017, 02:53 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by 65dart
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Lolwut

There were no "compromises for Democrats." I don't know where to begin with how wrong that statement is.

Please do begin. Tell me all that's wrong with it because so far you have not said a thing except catch phrase from left wing news.

The burden of proof is on you, boy-o. So please, tell me how they were courting Democrats when they decided to remove essential health benefits regulation from plans. Or phasing out the Medicaid expansion in 2018 instead of 2020. Or having the ACA taxes be cut immediately.

I'd love to hear it.
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Old 03-28-2017, 12:05 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by ShuGuy
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Originally Posted by 65dart

Please do begin. Tell me all that's wrong with it because so far you have not said a thing except catch phrase from left wing news.

The burden of proof is on you, boy-o. So please, tell me how they were courting Democrats when they decided to remove essential health benefits regulation from plans. Or phasing out the Medicaid expansion in 2018 instead of 2020. Or having the ACA taxes be cut immediately.

I'd love to hear it.


You memeory seems to be short. Do you not recall the news mocking the gop for keeping many things from obama care.
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Old 03-28-2017, 12:11 PM   #52
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I believe the Democrats - wittingly or unwittingly - put us on the path to government controlled healthcare.

I know I am branching out of the original theme of this thread, but what's wrong with socialized medicine?

Dont jump on me yet. As folks who know me will tell, before permanently coming back to US, I have worked across various countries across the world (worked as in "worked" - not business visit). Take France for instance. Health care is slabbed - I mean you know what is an approx cost of say a hearts transplant or a knee surgery. You pay upfront with a health card (I don't remember the exact name) and then Government reimburses you. For a long term sick patient, Govt generally does 100%. Bottomline, medicines are mostly generic and if I remember correctly around 300 of them (at least in 2002-2004) are price controlled.
Or take Ireland - your cost of health care is capped. You can choose to become a public or a private patient (with your own insurance).
There are some other countries where I stayed long term, fortunately I did not go for medical visit, so I will not know in detail.
Even a developing country like India - you have free medical beds in hospital. I don't know in detail, but one of my Indian colleague who is staying in US for past few years was telling me health care in India for the poor is immensely better than in US. I don't believe him - but there may beb some merit in it.
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Old 03-28-2017, 12:41 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by infantrystud


I believe the Democrats - wittingly or unwittingly - put us on the path to government controlled healthcare.

I know I am branching out of the original theme of this thread, but what's wrong with socialized medicine?

Dont jump on me yet. As folks who know me will tell, before permanently coming back to US, I have worked across various countries across the world (worked as in "worked" - not business visit). Take France for instance. Health care is slabbed - I mean you know what is an approx cost of say a hearts transplant or a knee surgery. You pay upfront with a health card (I don't remember the exact name) and then Government reimburses you. For a long term sick patient, Govt generally does 100%. Bottomline, medicines are mostly generic and if I remember correctly around 300 of them (at least in 2002-2004) are price controlled.
Or take Ireland - your cost of health care is capped. You can choose to become a public or a private patient (with your own insurance).
There are some other countries where I stayed long term, fortunately I did not go for medical visit, so I will not know in detail.
Even a developing country like India - you have free medical beds in hospital. I don't know in detail, but one of my Indian colleague who is staying in US for past few years was telling me health care in India for the poor is immensely better than in US. I don't believe him - but there may beb some merit in it.

Find one goverment program that is ran well, that dosen't waste money, and helps more than just the poorest of the poor. That should answer your question.
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Old 03-28-2017, 01:30 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65dart
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShuGuy

The burden of proof is on you, boy-o. So please, tell me how they were courting Democrats when they decided to remove essential health benefits regulation from plans. Or phasing out the Medicaid expansion in 2018 instead of 2020. Or having the ACA taxes be cut immediately.

I'd love to hear it.


You memeory seems to be short. Do you not recall the news mocking the gop for keeping many things from obama care.



That wasn't a compromise so much as it was Republicans not understanding how the popular things in Obamacare are only made possible by the unpopular things, you ignorant sack of shit.
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Old 03-28-2017, 01:32 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65dart
Quote:
Originally Posted by tracer_bullet77

I know I am branching out of the original theme of this thread, but what's wrong with socialized medicine?

Dont jump on me yet. As folks who know me will tell, before permanently coming back to US, I have worked across various countries across the world (worked as in "worked" - not business visit). Take France for instance. Health care is slabbed - I mean you know what is an approx cost of say a hearts transplant or a knee surgery. You pay upfront with a health card (I don't remember the exact name) and then Government reimburses you. For a long term sick patient, Govt generally does 100%. Bottomline, medicines are mostly generic and if I remember correctly around 300 of them (at least in 2002-2004) are price controlled.
Or take Ireland - your cost of health care is capped. You can choose to become a public or a private patient (with your own insurance).
There are some other countries where I stayed long term, fortunately I did not go for medical visit, so I will not know in detail.
Even a developing country like India - you have free medical beds in hospital. I don't know in detail, but one of my Indian colleague who is staying in US for past few years was telling me health care in India for the poor is immensely better than in US. I don't believe him - but there may beb some merit in it.

Find one goverment program that is ran well, that dosen't waste money, and helps more than just the poorest of the poor. That should answer your question.

Except it didn't, because he provided a variety of countries where government-sponsored healthcare works.
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Old 03-28-2017, 07:03 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by 65dart


You memeory seems to be short. Do you not recall the news mocking the gop for keeping many things from obama care.



That wasn't a compromise so much as it was Republicans not understanding how the popular things in Obamacare are only made possible by the unpopular things, you ignorant sack of shit.

Ok shu. More deflection. It alright that you opened your mouth made a couple of stupid statements and are now trying to back away from them as fast as possible.
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Old 03-28-2017, 07:28 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by 65dart

Find one goverment program that is ran well, that dosen't waste money, and helps more than just the poorest of the poor. That should answer your question.

Except it didn't, because he provided a variety of countries where government-sponsored healthcare works.


Did you choose those words carefully as you knew your statement was idiotic. Government sponsored healthcare is nothing like socialized healthcare. Also of those countries he listed none have socialized healthcare.
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Old 03-28-2017, 10:34 PM   #58
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We are spoiled as a nation when it comes to healthcare. We get the best drugs (but pay for them). We can generally see any doctor we want to (within reason) and don't have long wait times. You think you have a skin thingy and want to see a dermatologist? Call one up and make an appointment. Your insurance, unless it is a HMO, is likely to pay for it without a referral. You want the fancy new medicine advertised on TV? Fine, just ask your doctor, he/she is likely to give it to you unless it is medically irresponsible.

With socialized - or even government controlled - healthcare, things change. Our taxes will have to be raised significantly. It is not "free" as many seem to think. Those fancy new drugs with low side effects? Too expensive expect for the uber rich. And, likely innovation will be stifled because when the government sets the prices, what incentive do you have to research and develop if you can't turn a profit? Calling up your local dermatologist to swing by next week? Nope. You'll likely be waiting months. Wait times... Ask people in the NHS in the UK about wait times.

Some will argue that Medicare and even Tricare are models for successful government controlled healthcare. Perhaps. Again, it is a problem of scale. Just like people like to point to places like Sweden and say, "look, they have free _____". They pay for it. In high taxes. And, their idea of healthcare is different than our spoiled ideas of it.

But, it is the way we are headed. If I had any confidence in our elected leaders, I might not be so worried. But, given their track record and their desire to be partisan fucks - I am worried.



Quote:
Originally Posted by tracer_bullet77
Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud


I believe the Democrats - wittingly or unwittingly - put us on the path to government controlled healthcare.

I know I am branching out of the original theme of this thread, but what's wrong with socialized medicine?

Dont jump on me yet. As folks who know me will tell, before permanently coming back to US, I have worked across various countries across the world (worked as in "worked" - not business visit). Take France for instance. Health care is slabbed - I mean you know what is an approx cost of say a hearts transplant or a knee surgery. You pay upfront with a health card (I don't remember the exact name) and then Government reimburses you. For a long term sick patient, Govt generally does 100%. Bottomline, medicines are mostly generic and if I remember correctly around 300 of them (at least in 2002-2004) are price controlled.
Or take Ireland - your cost of health care is capped. You can choose to become a public or a private patient (with your own insurance).
There are some other countries where I stayed long term, fortunately I did not go for medical visit, so I will not know in detail.
Even a developing country like India - you have free medical beds in hospital. I don't know in detail, but one of my Indian colleague who is staying in US for past few years was telling me health care in India for the poor is immensely better than in US. I don't believe him - but there may beb some merit in it.
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Old 03-29-2017, 01:33 PM   #59
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That wasn't a compromise so much as it was Republicans not understanding how the popular things in Obamacare are only made possible by the unpopular things, you ignorant sack of shit.

Ok shu. More deflection. It alright that you opened your mouth made a couple of stupid statements and are now trying to back away from them as fast as possible.

Where was the deflection? You made a remarkably ignorant statement that shows how much of a partisan dipshit you are, and I called you out for it. There was no "compromise for Democrats." Unless your idea of compromise is "I'm going to stab you, but I won't punch you in the face because I know you hate a black eye," you're absolutely full of shit.
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Old 03-29-2017, 07:51 PM   #60
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Ok shu. More deflection. It alright that you opened your mouth made a couple of stupid statements and are now trying to back away from them as fast as possible.

Where was the deflection? You made a remarkably ignorant statement that shows how much of a partisan dipshit you are, and I called you out for it. There was no "compromise for Democrats." Unless your idea of compromise is "I'm going to stab you, but I won't punch you in the face because I know you hate a black eye," you're absolutely full of shit.

Well lets see you completely ignored the question I asked how the aca made health care better, then you next statement about the compromise was there is so many things wrong with that statement. When I ask you to expalin what is wrong with it you jump to burden of proof is on me. Those are all deflection.

And yes your example was a compromise, and if we apply your example to what I said It backs up what I said. Just because you don't see the compromise as a great one dosen't mean it wasn't a compromise.
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