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Old 03-15-2017, 09:54 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by infantrystud
Source???

Quote:
Originally Posted by darthbob88
We already have one of the lowest effective business tax rates in the world, this would more or less zero it out.

https://taxfoundation.org/corporate-...nd-world-2016/

Quote:
Key Findings:

The United States has the third highest general top marginal corporate income tax rate in the world, at 38.92 percent. Due to the recent reduction in Chad’s corporate tax rate, the U.S. rate is exceeded only by the United Arab Emirates and Puerto Rico.
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Old 03-15-2017, 10:01 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by darthbob88
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Originally Posted by infantrystud
This whole discussion.... Why not make it $25/hour? I mean, like, lets really give them a good raise. What's the problem with that?
That's unnecessarily high for a wage floor, and actually would destroy jobs the way you think $15/hr would. Fifteen offers a good compromise between bumping McDonald's workers above the poverty line so they can get by without welfare, and reducing the demand for McDonald's workers so they're unemployed.
so now why would anyone want to be an EMT a dental assistant or plenty of other jobs that require training if they can make the same money at McDonalds?
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Old 03-15-2017, 11:29 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by darthbob88
Not everybody, just the ones who're going to be resentful about losing their wage advantage as the new people. The executives making 6 figures don't need a raise but would probably get one, the middle management making high 5 figures could but probably won't need a raise.
E: Also, in case you didn't know, the reason people try to make a living in fast food, and retail, and whatever other job you're going to sneer at, is that there aren't enough jobs for them to make a living somewhere else. Until Trump brings back more factory jobs, they have to make a living where they can, and sometimes that means McDonalds.
Quote:
I don't think McDonald's et alia are just going to pay the extra money in labor costs. I think what you'll see is the cutting of payroll. Automation. So, it'll be a good news/bad news deal. Good news, you're all getting raises. Bad news, we don't need all of you anymore. Customers will be ordering at kiosks and we'll contract out cleaning of the place so Jimmy, Tina, Juan, Raymond, here's your final checks.
They can do most of that now, and guess what? Automation isn't good enough yet. They're still going to pay that extra labor cost because they still need that human labor to do the job.
Quote:
I'm much more sympathetic to wage stagnation at places that previously offered decent careers. Places where the CEOs make millions and millions but pay their lowest wage earners peanuts. Since you mentioned you do work for Microsoft, that's one of the places. They hire contractors like yourself so they don't have to inherit a worker and benefits. Same for Apple. One my my former interpreters from Afghanistan made it to the USA - legally - and works as a contractor for Apple. They pay him a shitty wage in Northern California. I pick on these two companies because their politics are generally to the left yet they do the same things they accuse the evil corporate people on the right of doing. Pay their people crap while the top rakes in millions and millions in total comp.
Actually, I'm getting $75K as a contractor and a possibility of getting hired as a proper blue-badge MS employee, so I got nothing to complain about.
Quote:
I'd like to see companies that don't have such a pay gap between CEO and lowest paid worker actually get some nice tax breaks. Do something to encourage companies to pay people more.
No, we really shouldn't do this on a company-by-company level because that's too easy to game by changing what a company is. Something like McDonald's laying off everybody making less than 1/10th the CEO's salary, then taking them back on as contractors from a wholly-owned subsidiary staffing firm. Or cutting the CEO's salary to $1 (plus millions in stock dividends and other bonuses). This is a problem at the national level and across the board, and needs to be fixed at a national level.

Not to mention how big this tax credit would need to be in order to encourage companies to take on billions more in payroll. We already have one of the lowest effective business tax rates in the world, this would more or less zero it out.

People make a career out of fast food because they have no other skills, not because their is no other jobs. Lets look at some simple jobs out their. Homedepot, you have to have some knowlege of the dept your working in. If you have never lifted a finger in your life to even know simple things of home repair you will never getting hired. Working at a parts store its not required to know anything about cars as the computer tells you everything but the guys that do have knowledge about cars do a hell of a lot better job. So the problem isn't that isn't any jobs out there, it is called there is a whole generation that only has experience playing on their phones.
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Old 03-16-2017, 12:20 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by infantrystud
Source???

Quote:
Originally Posted by darthbob88
We already have one of the lowest effective business tax rates in the world, this would more or less zero it out.
Source.
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Old 03-16-2017, 12:34 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by 65dart
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Originally Posted by darthbob88
Except that now that prices have gone up, so has the value this dude generates for the company, and with it the amount he should be paid.
It matters because I speak from experience as somebody who has navigated the King County rent market more recently than you have. The cheaper places to live, where you think these people should move, are Central District, Columbia City and North Beacon Hill, which are still Seattle. Not the actually surrounding areas of Bellevue, Redmond, or Kirkland, which were too expensive for me.
You skipped over a part there darth, just because prices have risen dosen't mean profits have risen. So If a company is raising prices to compensate for a hike in minium wage, then profits have stayed the same even though prices went up.

Here is something I want you to think about. Mcdonalds sells the franchise to owners, instead of the stores being owned by coroporate. On average a single store brings in 175k of profit. So now if the mcdonalds has 10 full time minum wage workers, jacking minimum wage up 5 dollars an hour, that cost the the store 100k. Profits of the store are now 75k. So now where is the money for giving all the people working above minium wage a raise. Its not there as the owner still needs to take home his money too. And before you can even start, I'll stop you. The owner does get to take home 175k. except guess who finances the store when it is slow, the owner, guess who pays for break downs and other cost that are normal operating budget, the owner. So while yes you see the owner taking home a lot but he has to hold back a lot of that for bad times.
Yes, and this is your justification for why the owner is going to raise prices, to compensate for a $100K+ increase in payroll. Over the course of a year, that's on the order of $300/day of added revenue. I have confidence that he can manage that.
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There is where the confusion in lies, you think moving to a different part of seattle is moving to a cheaper place to live. If you take notice I kept saying people want to be fianced to live in the seattle area, so if you can't hack it in seattle move to olympia, or any other city in the surronding area that is cheaper. And I don't want to hear that is unfair to expect them to move. I know a lot of people that have moved states, sometimes all away across the country, because the area they were living in was to high, vs the wage pay for their job skills.
Olympia's two counties away from the Seattle area. You'd have better traction if you argued for Pierce County, but that's still an unreasonably long commute for most people, especially carless people like myself.
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Old 03-16-2017, 12:39 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65dart
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthbob88
Not everybody, just the ones who're going to be resentful about losing their wage advantage as the new people. The executives making 6 figures don't need a raise but would probably get one, the middle management making high 5 figures could but probably won't need a raise.
E: Also, in case you didn't know, the reason people try to make a living in fast food, and retail, and whatever other job you're going to sneer at, is that there aren't enough jobs for them to make a living somewhere else. Until Trump brings back more factory jobs, they have to make a living where they can, and sometimes that means McDonalds.
They can do most of that now, and guess what? Automation isn't good enough yet. They're still going to pay that extra labor cost because they still need that human labor to do the job.
Quote:
I'm much more sympathetic to wage stagnation at places that previously offered decent careers. Places where the CEOs make millions and millions but pay their lowest wage earners peanuts. Since you mentioned you do work for Microsoft, that's one of the places. They hire contractors like yourself so they don't have to inherit a worker and benefits. Same for Apple. One my my former interpreters from Afghanistan made it to the USA - legally - and works as a contractor for Apple. They pay him a shitty wage in Northern California. I pick on these two companies because their politics are generally to the left yet they do the same things they accuse the evil corporate people on the right of doing. Pay their people crap while the top rakes in millions and millions in total comp.
Actually, I'm getting $75K as a contractor and a possibility of getting hired as a proper blue-badge MS employee, so I got nothing to complain about.
Quote:
I'd like to see companies that don't have such a pay gap between CEO and lowest paid worker actually get some nice tax breaks. Do something to encourage companies to pay people more.
No, we really shouldn't do this on a company-by-company level because that's too easy to game by changing what a company is. Something like McDonald's laying off everybody making less than 1/10th the CEO's salary, then taking them back on as contractors from a wholly-owned subsidiary staffing firm. Or cutting the CEO's salary to $1 (plus millions in stock dividends and other bonuses). This is a problem at the national level and across the board, and needs to be fixed at a national level.

Not to mention how big this tax credit would need to be in order to encourage companies to take on billions more in payroll. We already have one of the lowest effective business tax rates in the world, this would more or less zero it out.

People make a career out of fast food because they have no other skills, not because their is no other jobs. Lets look at some simple jobs out their. Homedepot, you have to have some knowlege of the dept your working in. If you have never lifted a finger in your life to even know simple things of home repair you will never getting hired. Working at a parts store its not required to know anything about cars as the computer tells you everything but the guys that do have knowledge about cars do a hell of a lot better job. So the problem isn't that isn't any jobs out there, it is called there is a whole generation that only has experience playing on their phones.
There are, as of December, 1.4 job seekers for every job opening. This includes jobs at McDonald's, and does not include people working at McDonalds. No, there are not enough jobs out there.
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Facts or GTFO. Anecdotal arguments will be met with mockery.
Food stamps stimulate the economy, tax cuts don't, tax rates are at a historic low, welfare queens are either non-existent or embarrassingly near.
My posting is a PC-Optional zone. I reserve the right to refrain from using PC euphemisms, and to speak my opinion, fucknut.
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Old 03-16-2017, 05:51 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by darthbob88
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Originally Posted by 65dart
You skipped over a part there darth, just because prices have risen dosen't mean profits have risen. So If a company is raising prices to compensate for a hike in minium wage, then profits have stayed the same even though prices went up.

Here is something I want you to think about. Mcdonalds sells the franchise to owners, instead of the stores being owned by coroporate. On average a single store brings in 175k of profit. So now if the mcdonalds has 10 full time minum wage workers, jacking minimum wage up 5 dollars an hour, that cost the the store 100k. Profits of the store are now 75k. So now where is the money for giving all the people working above minium wage a raise. Its not there as the owner still needs to take home his money too. And before you can even start, I'll stop you. The owner does get to take home 175k. except guess who finances the store when it is slow, the owner, guess who pays for break downs and other cost that are normal operating budget, the owner. So while yes you see the owner taking home a lot but he has to hold back a lot of that for bad times.
Yes, and this is your justification for why the owner is going to raise prices, to compensate for a $100K+ increase in payroll. Over the course of a year, that's on the order of $300/day of added revenue. I have confidence that he can manage that.
Quote:
There is where the confusion in lies, you think moving to a different part of seattle is moving to a cheaper place to live. If you take notice I kept saying people want to be fianced to live in the seattle area, so if you can't hack it in seattle move to olympia, or any other city in the surronding area that is cheaper. And I don't want to hear that is unfair to expect them to move. I know a lot of people that have moved states, sometimes all away across the country, because the area they were living in was to high, vs the wage pay for their job skills.
Olympia's two counties away from the Seattle area. You'd have better traction if you argued for Pierce County, but that's still an unreasonably long commute for most people, especially carless people like myself.


Try again Darth. That was 100k profit the owner was out not, gross profit. Average mcdonalds make 6 cents on the dollar, so they would have to gross an extra 4500 a day. Thats a little more of a hurdle to clear. Also I used straight dollars across the board, so that extra 10k per person a year comes to more than that when you add taxes in.

Thats unreasonable to ask, really? But its ok to ask a building owner to make less money because someone wants to live in the seattle area. It ok to ask for handout because you can't manage a good enough job to pay for your rent. But asking them to drive a little further is unreasonable.

Its not unreasonable as I said before I know people that drive half an hour to an hour and a half for work, and that is not freeway time, that is no traffic 60 mph all the way. So should half of our town get free money so these people can move closer to their job, and still afford a house thats just as good or better in those areas.

And my other point you skipped over. If you can't hack it in seattle its time to move on. Find a new place to live and a new job. Especially since we are talking about mcdonalds workers, mcdonalds is just about everywhere, so its not like it would be hard for them to find work in a new town.
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Old 03-16-2017, 05:54 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthbob88
Quote:
Originally Posted by 65dart
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Originally Posted by darthbob88
Not everybody, just the ones who're going to be resentful about losing their wage advantage as the new people. The executives making 6 figures don't need a raise but would probably get one, the middle management making high 5 figures could but probably won't need a raise.
E: Also, in case you didn't know, the reason people try to make a living in fast food, and retail, and whatever other job you're going to sneer at, is that there aren't enough jobs for them to make a living somewhere else. Until Trump brings back more factory jobs, they have to make a living where they can, and sometimes that means McDonalds.
They can do most of that now, and guess what? Automation isn't good enough yet. They're still going to pay that extra labor cost because they still need that human labor to do the job.
Actually, I'm getting $75K as a contractor and a possibility of getting hired as a proper blue-badge MS employee, so I got nothing to complain about.
Quote:
I'd like to see companies that don't have such a pay gap between CEO and lowest paid worker actually get some nice tax breaks. Do something to encourage companies to pay people more.
No, we really shouldn't do this on a company-by-company level because that's too easy to game by changing what a company is. Something like McDonald's laying off everybody making less than 1/10th the CEO's salary, then taking them back on as contractors from a wholly-owned subsidiary staffing firm. Or cutting the CEO's salary to $1 (plus millions in stock dividends and other bonuses). This is a problem at the national level and across the board, and needs to be fixed at a national level.

Not to mention how big this tax credit would need to be in order to encourage companies to take on billions more in payroll. We already have one of the lowest effective business tax rates in the world, this would more or less zero it out.

People make a career out of fast food because they have no other skills, not because their is no other jobs. Lets look at some simple jobs out their. Homedepot, you have to have some knowlege of the dept your working in. If you have never lifted a finger in your life to even know simple things of home repair you will never getting hired. Working at a parts store its not required to know anything about cars as the computer tells you everything but the guys that do have knowledge about cars do a hell of a lot better job. So the problem isn't that isn't any jobs out there, it is called there is a whole generation that only has experience playing on their phones.
There are, as of December, 1.4 job seekers for every job opening. This includes jobs at McDonald's, and does not include people working at McDonalds. No, there are not enough jobs out there.


Whats your point that info still dosent change my statement. People may take a job at mcdonalds, due to lack of other work, but they don't make a career out of it. They work there till a better job comes along. The ones making a career out of fast food is because they have no other skills.
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Old 03-16-2017, 01:23 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by 65dart
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Yes, and this is your justification for why the owner is going to raise prices, to compensate for a $100K+ increase in payroll. Over the course of a year, that's on the order of $300/day of added revenue. I have confidence that he can manage that.
Quote:
There is where the confusion in lies, you think moving to a different part of seattle is moving to a cheaper place to live. If you take notice I kept saying people want to be fianced to live in the seattle area, so if you can't hack it in seattle move to olympia, or any other city in the surronding area that is cheaper. And I don't want to hear that is unfair to expect them to move. I know a lot of people that have moved states, sometimes all away across the country, because the area they were living in was to high, vs the wage pay for their job skills.
Olympia's two counties away from the Seattle area. You'd have better traction if you argued for Pierce County, but that's still an unreasonably long commute for most people, especially carless people like myself.
Try again Darth. That was 100k profit the owner was out not, gross profit. Average mcdonalds make 6 cents on the dollar, so they would have to gross an extra 4500 a day. Thats a little more of a hurdle to clear. Also I used straight dollars across the board, so that extra 10k per person a year comes to more than that when you add taxes in.
Fair enough. Still, I have every confidence that he will either achieve that added revenue, or fail as is the will of the invisible hand.
Quote:
Thats unreasonable to ask, really? But its ok to ask a building owner to make less money because someone wants to live in the seattle area. It ok to ask for handout because you can't manage a good enough job to pay for your rent. But asking them to drive a little further is unreasonable.

Its not unreasonable as I said before I know people that drive half an hour to an hour and a half for work, and that is not freeway time, that is no traffic 60 mph all the way. So should half of our town get free money so these people can move closer to their job, and still afford a house thats just as good or better in those areas.
It was two hours or a bit over when I had to commute from Pierce County, enough that I'm happy my commute's only 40m right now.
Quote:
And my other point you skipped over. If you can't hack it in seattle its time to move on. Find a new place to live and a new job. Especially since we are talking about mcdonalds workers, mcdonalds is just about everywhere, so its not like it would be hard for them to find work in a new town.
Who said anything about McDonald's workers? There are lots of people in Seattle who would appreciate affordable housing, including the Seattle FD, Sanitation, nurses at the local hospitals, and other key workers.
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Originally Posted by 65dart
Whats your point that info still dosent change my statement. People may take a job at mcdonalds, due to lack of other work, but they don't make a career out of it. They work there till a better job comes along. The ones making a career out of fast food is because they have no other skills.
You're assuming there is a better job coming along. Again, there aren't enough jobs period, never mind better jobs to transition to.
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Old 03-16-2017, 07:23 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthbob88
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Originally Posted by 65dart
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Originally Posted by darthbob88
Yes, and this is your justification for why the owner is going to raise prices, to compensate for a $100K+ increase in payroll. Over the course of a year, that's on the order of $300/day of added revenue. I have confidence that he can manage that.
Olympia's two counties away from the Seattle area. You'd have better traction if you argued for Pierce County, but that's still an unreasonably long commute for most people, especially carless people like myself.
Try again Darth. That was 100k profit the owner was out not, gross profit. Average mcdonalds make 6 cents on the dollar, so they would have to gross an extra 4500 a day. Thats a little more of a hurdle to clear. Also I used straight dollars across the board, so that extra 10k per person a year comes to more than that when you add taxes in.
Fair enough. Still, I have every confidence that he will either achieve that added revenue, or fail as is the will of the invisible hand.
Quote:
Thats unreasonable to ask, really? But its ok to ask a building owner to make less money because someone wants to live in the seattle area. It ok to ask for handout because you can't manage a good enough job to pay for your rent. But asking them to drive a little further is unreasonable.

Its not unreasonable as I said before I know people that drive half an hour to an hour and a half for work, and that is not freeway time, that is no traffic 60 mph all the way. So should half of our town get free money so these people can move closer to their job, and still afford a house thats just as good or better in those areas.
It was two hours or a bit over when I had to commute from Pierce County, enough that I'm happy my commute's only 40m right now.
Quote:
And my other point you skipped over. If you can't hack it in seattle its time to move on. Find a new place to live and a new job. Especially since we are talking about mcdonalds workers, mcdonalds is just about everywhere, so its not like it would be hard for them to find work in a new town.
Who said anything about McDonald's workers? There are lots of people in Seattle who would appreciate affordable housing, including the Seattle FD, Sanitation, nurses at the local hospitals, and other key workers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 65dart
Whats your point that info still dosent change my statement. People may take a job at mcdonalds, due to lack of other work, but they don't make a career out of it. They work there till a better job comes along. The ones making a career out of fast food is because they have no other skills.
You're assuming there is a better job coming along. Again, there aren't enough jobs period, never mind better jobs to transition to.

Ok, say he does make up the money, that still leaves out all the people that you think should just get a raise, to match minium wage going up. So either the owner has to make quite a bit more than that a day, or not give out raises. So again where do you think the money comes from to hand everyone a raise?

Also on that matter that was an average mcdonalds. So that means there is a whole lot of them out there making way below that profit margin. So yes the minium wage hike will break the owner, and force closure, which in turn means less jobs. So what is better less money and a job. Or no job and no money.

The other problem with the make or break, is people have issue with price hikes and the breaking of the .99 cent mark. If someone goes in orders the same thing all the time and suddenly the amount is higher, they will break habit and stop buying for awhile because of the price hike. The other is people only see the first number. So the big mac that 3.99 people only see 3 dollars, any where in the range of 3.00 to 3.99 people only see 3 dollars. So with price hike running the burger into the 4 dollar range people see it as a bigger price hike than it actually is. So again they quit buying for awhile. So the price hike to compensate actually creates a lull in business, so once again making it difficult to clear that hurdle.

That didn't answer the question. Is it fair to ask a building owner to make less so a person dosen't have to travel to their job. It isn't your asking the building owner to make less money, so the worker can live closer to their job and keep more of their money. That unreasonable. " You need to suffer so I can more money", that is a BS thing for people to expect. When they are supposed to be responsible for taking care of themselves. Not the goverment, not the building owner.

If you have a skill and a good work ethic there is always a better job coming along. Hence the saying of minimum wage workers are only worth minimium wage. There only worth minimium wage because they do not have the skill or the work ethic to move up the food chain.
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Old 03-16-2017, 09:47 PM   #51
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Yep, that's why I'm asking him his source that ours is the lowest.

I wanna see his source on that. I don't think it exists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentBob
Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
Source???


https://taxfoundation.org/corporate-...nd-world-2016/

Quote:
Key Findings:

The United States has the third highest general top marginal corporate income tax rate in the world, at 38.92 percent. Due to the recent reduction in Chad’s corporate tax rate, the U.S. rate is exceeded only by the United Arab Emirates and Puerto Rico.
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Old 03-16-2017, 11:36 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by infantrystud
Yep, that's why I'm asking him his source that ours is the lowest.

I wanna see his source on that. I don't think it exists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentBob

https://taxfoundation.org/corporate-...nd-world-2016/

Quote:
Key Findings:

The United States has the third highest general top marginal corporate income tax rate in the world, at 38.92 percent. Due to the recent reduction in Chad’s corporate tax rate, the U.S. rate is exceeded only by the United Arab Emirates and Puerto Rico.


Darth gave his source, in which it is kinda correct but not really. Darth has once again fallen into the trap of not understanding how business works.

Darth sees a number like 32 billion in profit and thinks that is a huge number that a comapny should pay taxes on it. What he dosen't realize is how much of that profit number is from over sea's. So all the profit brought in from other countries can't be taxed because the other countries already taxed it and that would be a double tax. The othe one he dosen't see is any loans taken come right off taxes, because the bank that loaned the money is making money on the intrest and paying taxes on that, so again if the corp payed taxes on that money it would again be a double tax. The other one he dosen't see is any time a company has a loss that loss get rolled over to next year till that loss is gone, other wise a company would be paying taxes on money they have not made.

So he has made the same mistake he made with thinking a mcdonalds only needed to pull in a extra 300 dollars a day to cover minium wage. The liberals pushing to raise taxes know exactley what their doing, but know the average american, won't understand that 32 billion in profits dosen't equate out to what the company actually put in their pocket.
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Old 03-17-2017, 12:37 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by infantrystud
Yep, that's why I'm asking him his source that ours is the lowest.

I wanna see his source on that. I don't think it exists.
You probably missed it in the flurry of responses to dart.
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Old 03-17-2017, 12:56 AM   #54
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My apologies, indeed, I missed your response.

Meh... If we simplified our taxes and didn't force companies to hire armies of accountants to ratfuck the system...

Quote:
Originally Posted by darthbob88
Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
Source???

Source.
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Old 03-17-2017, 01:42 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by 65dart
Ok, say he does make up the money, that still leaves out all the people that you think should just get a raise, to match minium wage going up. So either the owner has to make quite a bit more than that a day, or not give out raises. So again where do you think the money comes from to hand everyone a raise?

Also on that matter that was an average mcdonalds. So that means there is a whole lot of them out there making way below that profit margin. So yes the minium wage hike will break the owner, and force closure, which in turn means less jobs. So what is better less money and a job. Or no job and no money.
If they can't hack it with a living wage, that franchisee will be replaced by another business that can. Is that not your argument against supporting the people in Seattle?
Quote:
That didn't answer the question. Is it fair to ask a building owner to make less so a person dosen't have to travel to their job. It isn't your asking the building owner to make less money, so the worker can live closer to their job and keep more of their money. That unreasonable. " You need to suffer so I can more money", that is a BS thing for people to expect. When they are supposed to be responsible for taking care of themselves. Not the goverment, not the building owner.
I'm going to have to remember half of this for "Why are benefits for the rich good while benefits for the poor are evil" Mk2. And yes, I am extremely OK with breaking the market for the benefit of workers and customers.
Quote:
If you have a skill and a good work ethic there is always a better job coming along. Hence the saying of minimum wage workers are only worth minimium wage. There only worth minimium wage because they do not have the skill or the work ethic to move up the food chain.
[citation very needed]
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Old 03-17-2017, 02:15 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by infantrystud
My apologies, indeed, I missed your response.

Meh... If we simplified our taxes and didn't force companies to hire armies of accountants to ratfuck the system...

Quote:
Originally Posted by darthbob88
The reason taxes are so complicated is because companies ratfuck the system.

Even ignoring the whole "We actually need this disgustingly obscure corner-case that only benefits three people and a dachshund" obstacle and assuming you manage to trim it down to "Send us X% of your taxable income for the year", the problem is still defining "taxable income". Does that include income from overseas companies I own stock in, trusts that haven't fully vested, rental income, income from sales of my products and services overseas, et fucking cetera.
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Old 03-17-2017, 03:10 AM   #57
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Raymond you exhaust me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darthbob88
Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
My apologies, indeed, I missed your response.

Meh... If we simplified our taxes and didn't force companies to hire armies of accountants to ratfuck the system...

The reason taxes are so complicated is because companies ratfuck the system.

Even ignoring the whole "We actually need this disgustingly obscure corner-case that only benefits three people and a dachshund" obstacle and assuming you manage to trim it down to "Send us X% of your taxable income for the year", the problem is still defining "taxable income". Does that include income from overseas companies I own stock in, trusts that haven't fully vested, rental income, income from sales of my products and services overseas, et fucking cetera.
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Old 03-17-2017, 07:27 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by darthbob88
If they can't hack it with a living wage, that franchisee will be replaced by another business that can. Is that not your argument against supporting the people in Seattle?
Quote:
That didn't answer the question. Is it fair to ask a building owner to make less so a person dosen't have to travel to their job. It isn't your asking the building owner to make less money, so the worker can live closer to their job and keep more of their money. That unreasonable. " You need to suffer so I can more money", that is a BS thing for people to expect. When they are supposed to be responsible for taking care of themselves. Not the goverment, not the building owner.
I'm going to have to remember half of this for "Why are benefits for the rich good while benefits for the poor are evil" Mk2. And yes, I am extremely OK with breaking the market for the benefit of workers and customers.
Quote:
If you have a skill and a good work ethic there is always a better job coming along. Hence the saying of minimum wage workers are only worth minimium wage. There only worth minimium wage because they do not have the skill or the work ethic to move up the food chain.
[citation very needed]


Nope that is not my argument all. The business is being forced to pay an inflated wage, which is quite opposite of if you can't pay your rent with out assitance it is time to find a new place. Simply I repeat a job is only worth as much as it earns the company, so being forced to pay a livable wage as you say is not practical for most businesses, when the job is only worth minium wage. Also I'm not sure where you keep coming up with all this magical stuff, If one business can't make it there because labor is too high and that is what forces the closure, then a second one will not be able to make it there either. There will not be some magical line of fast food resteraunts lining up to go broke..

Again you avoided the question. I could care less if your ok with it, is it fair? And where is the benefit for the rich. Being allowed to collect the going rate for a rental is not a benifit, Its called the normal way of life. Also the fact that your assuming all building owners are rich is a strech at best. Do you have any clue what it takes to run and maintain a rental unit. Or you just shooting from the hip and assuming that all landlords are getting rich because your making the assumption that all of the rent goes in their pocket.

You want a citation for common logic. Alright I'll see what I can dig up.
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Old 03-17-2017, 07:33 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthbob88
Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
My apologies, indeed, I missed your response.

Meh... If we simplified our taxes and didn't force companies to hire armies of accountants to ratfuck the system...

The reason taxes are so complicated is because companies ratfuck the system.

Even ignoring the whole "We actually need this disgustingly obscure corner-case that only benefits three people and a dachshund" obstacle and assuming you manage to trim it down to "Send us X% of your taxable income for the year", the problem is still defining "taxable income". Does that include income from overseas companies I own stock in, trusts that haven't fully vested, rental income, income from sales of my products and services overseas, et fucking cetera.


It is seriously not that complicated. The simplest form of simple is, If you have already paid a tax on that money, you don't get taxed again. If someone else is paying a tax on that money you don't get taxed again. And if you actually haven't made that money you don't get taxed on it. The rest of the complications come in when you have to prove where you have already payed a tax, or haven't actually earned the money.
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Old 03-17-2017, 08:28 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthbob88
If they can't hack it with a living wage, that franchisee will be replaced by another business that can. Is that not your argument against supporting the people in Seattle?
Quote:
That didn't answer the question. Is it fair to ask a building owner to make less so a person dosen't have to travel to their job. It isn't your asking the building owner to make less money, so the worker can live closer to their job and keep more of their money. That unreasonable. " You need to suffer so I can more money", that is a BS thing for people to expect. When they are supposed to be responsible for taking care of themselves. Not the goverment, not the building owner.
I'm going to have to remember half of this for "Why are benefits for the rich good while benefits for the poor are evil" Mk2. And yes, I am extremely OK with breaking the market for the benefit of workers and customers.
Quote:
If you have a skill and a good work ethic there is always a better job coming along. Hence the saying of minimum wage workers are only worth minimium wage. There only worth minimium wage because they do not have the skill or the work ethic to move up the food chain.
[citation very needed]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...lege-graduates

Not exactly what I was saying but it shows that better jobs are coming along as I said, and the people with education(skill) are grabbing them.
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