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Old 04-15-2019, 02:07 AM   #1
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Politics When does it become too much?

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Last week Georgetown University students voted to pay reparations to the descendants of slaves.

So students who aren’t slave owners must compensate people who aren’t slaves, because of what long-dead people once did to long-dead people.

Students whose own ancestors were also oppressed — say, Jews forced out of Russia, or American Indians whose lands were stolen — must compensate the politically stronger descendants of another “victim group”.

They must compensate the descendants of slaves who allegedly helped to make their university rich, but not the descendants of volunteers, donors or even ripped-off workers who helped, too.

And, confusingly, they must compensate the American descendants of Africans taken as slaves, when the descendants of Africans whose ancestors weren’t taken are on average much poorer.
Is recompense also going to be paid to Southerners who lost their land to Yankee Carpetbaggers?
How about to the Chinese who were virtually treated as slave labour?
How about paying something to the white slaves. That was what indentured servants effectively were.
Quote:
In the modern era, many whites in England, Ireland and British North America were indentured servants, a form of slavery now banned by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

Between 50 and 67 percent of white immigrants to the American colonies, from the 1630s and American Revolution, had travelled under indenture.

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John Punch (fl. 1630s, living 1640) was an enslaved African who lived in the Colony of Virginia during the seventeenth century. Punch had come to Virginia apparently as an indentured servant, however, in July 1640, the Virginia Governor's Council sentenced him to serve as a slave for the remainder of his life as punishment for running away to Maryland. In contrast, two European men who ran away with him were sentenced to longer indentures but not the permanent loss of their freedom. For this reason, historians consider John Punch the "first official slave in the English colonies," and his case as the "first legal sanctioning of lifelong slavery in the Chesapeake." Historians also consider this to be one of the first legal distinctions between Europeans and Africans made in the colony, and a key milestone in the development of the institution of slavery in the United States.
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Old 04-15-2019, 05:00 AM   #2
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When does it become too much? Probably some place after voluntary $27 donations. Are you seriously coming out against reparations as a concept?
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Old 04-15-2019, 06:06 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by darthbob88
When does it become too much? Probably some place after voluntary $27 donations. Are you seriously coming out against reparations as a concept?
Reparations to who?
Why should someone who had nothing to do with what happened over a hundred years ago make 'reparations' to the descendants of some, and only some, of those affected way back then?
Where do you draw the line?
Surely if assistance is being given out it should be on current requirements, letting those people who need the assistance now obtain it, not allocated to the descendants of someone who may or may not have been mistreated way back when.
Slaves were often sold by other black men. Why not ask the slaver tribes of Africa to make reparation for the wrong they did? It makes just as much sense.

The students voted to pay reparation. Presumably there would have been some who voted against the motion. Does this mean that the remainder of the students can take money from those who voted against it? Where the hell do they get off, spending someone else's money this way?

If I was a student paying money for tuition I'd damn well expect that money to be spent on tuition. Not given away to someone else. How much do the students at that University owe in student loans?

I assume that there are black people attending the University. They are going to be paying reparation along with the white students.

As far as I'm concerned reparation starts and finishes with the living, not for some fancied wrong committed some time in history.

Africa has a long tradition of white slavery. Are the blacks in the US going to give money to the white as reparation for this injustice.
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Old 04-15-2019, 08:30 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by darthbob88
When does it become too much? Probably some place after voluntary $27 donations. Are you seriously coming out against reparations as a concept?


If you could show in some way that the decedents are in some way effected by their ancestors being slaves you might have an argument. Speaking of reparations as a concept. Didn't your dad get DUI. Should you have to pay a fee for his actions. Should you have to pay a fee to all the people he put in potential danger. How about your kids should they also have to pay a fee for your father misdeed. I mean seriously you want to play this game then lets play it. Do explain why you shouldn't have to pay a fee, along with your kids, along with their kids for what your dad did wrong.
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Old 04-15-2019, 08:33 AM   #5
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Hey what a not brilliant idea. Lets punish people that have nothing to do with any of it. You want repatriations. Fine then do the right thing shut down Georgetown. They wouldn't have existed without the slave trade so they should not exist now.
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Old 04-15-2019, 11:11 AM   #6
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I would be for reparations under one condition. You take the money and a one way trip to your homeland.

But, who are we kidding? They'd just take the money and then fly back to Mexico and walk across the border and claim asylum. And, if they did that then they'd forfeit the money. And, I'd garnish their wages until they paid it back.

This reparations bullshit is just a way to say, "hey, look, vote for us, we'll give you stuff".

The real reparations should have been given out in 1865. Now it is just a political tactic.
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Old 04-15-2019, 03:11 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by darthbob88
When does it become too much? Probably some place after voluntary $27 donations. Are you seriously coming out against reparations as a concept?
Reparations to who?
Why should someone who had nothing to do with what happened over a hundred years ago make 'reparations' to the descendants of some, and only some, of those affected way back then?
Where do you draw the line?
The line can wait until after you decide whether there's any reparations to be paid, whether you need to draw the line at all.
Quote:
Surely if assistance is being given out it should be on current requirements, letting those people who need the assistance now obtain it, not allocated to the descendants of someone who may or may not have been mistreated way back when.
Another implementation detail that I'm just going to handwave away for now.

Quote:
The students voted to pay reparation. Presumably there would have been some who voted against the motion. Does this mean that the remainder of the students can take money from those who voted against it? Where the hell do they get off, spending someone else's money this way?
Where do the Republicans get off, trying to spend my tax dollars on The Wall? That's democracy, sometimes the vote doesn't go your way.

Quote:
If I was a student paying money for tuition I'd damn well expect that money to be spent on tuition. Not given away to someone else. How much do the students at that University owe in student loans?
Georgetown tuition is $50K/year. Another $54/year is negligible.

Quote:
As far as I'm concerned reparation starts and finishes with the living, not for some fancied wrong committed some time in history.
That's just your opinion, and I also just noticed that you're also denying that this shit happened. No, we have records of the 272 slaves who were sold to finance Georgetown U.
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Old 04-15-2019, 04:04 PM   #8
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I have read several articles from different viewpoints and they all say basically the same thing.

Here are the highlights...

Quote:
Georgetown University's school newspaper, The Hoya, reported that the vote Thursday had the highest turnout in recorded student government electoral history, about 58 percent. The referendum, which would establish a fee of $27.20 to tuition each semester, passed with 66.1 percent in favor...

Georgetown's new tuition fee would be allocated to descendants of the GU272, the 272 slaves who were sold by the Maryland Province of Jesuits in 1838 to assist the university when it was struggling with debt...

The university said the referendum "provides valuable insight" but did not say whether it would honor the student vote or not.

In this case we have precise documentation of the deed. 272 slaves sold to alleviate debt. I have to ask, was that all of their slaves, or did they sell just enough of them to satisfy their creditors?

This whole deal smells like a money grab. Why not offer those slave descendants a job to better their selves, or tuition to the school that sold their ancestors?

In this world nothing is fair and very little is right. We cannot go through life whining about past. We must stand up and do for our selves. Blacks weren't the only slaves, and not all whites were slave owners. Slavery was the way of life back then. As horrid as that sounds now it cannot be changed. People need to get over their selves and live their life.

My family didn't own slaves and I will not pay reparations to descendants of slaves.

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Old 04-15-2019, 08:08 PM   #9
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This whole deal smells like a money grab. Why not offer those slave descendants a job to better their selves, or tuition to the school that sold their ancestors?
I doubt it's a money grab, simply because the hypothetical victims voted for it. And I disagree with "just give them a job or free tuition" because that turns it into "charity but only on our terms". What would you do about somebody who already has a job, or who wants to go to a different school? Just say "tough titties, take the kindness we're willing to give you or fuck off"?
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In this world nothing is fair and very little is right. We cannot go through life whining about past. We must stand up and do for our selves. Blacks weren't the only slaves, and not all whites were slave owners. Slavery was the way of life back then. As horrid as that sounds now it cannot be changed. People need to get over their selves and live their life.

My family didn't own slaves and I will not pay reparations to descendants of slaves.
Spoken like someone who benefits from past injustice.
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Old 04-15-2019, 10:31 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by darthbob88
I doubt it's a money grab, simply because the hypothetical victims voted for it. And I disagree with "just give them a job or free tuition" because that turns it into "charity but only on our terms". What would you do about somebody who already has a job, or who wants to go to a different school? Just say "tough titties, take the kindness we're willing to give you or fuck off"?

I'm willing to tell them to fuck off right now. I have nothing to do with their situation and don't really give two shits how they manage. You don't agree? Then you pay them to sit and whine.


Quote:
In this world nothing is fair and very little is right. We cannot go through life whining about past. We must stand up and do for our selves. Blacks weren't the only slaves, and not all whites were slave owners. Slavery was the way of life back then. As horrid as that sounds now it cannot be changed. People need to get over their selves and live their life.

My family didn't own slaves and I will not pay reparations to descendants of slaves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darthbob88
Spoken like someone who benefits from past injustice.

I see you have it all figured out. Dude you don't know squat. You don't know me. You don't know the life I've led. You don't know the hardships I've endured.

You want reparations? Fine, you pay them. I'm not playing your white guilt game.
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Old 04-15-2019, 11:24 PM   #11
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Oh no, AtticBat. No siree. Darthbob88 is all for someone else paying the money. But, he saves his money for his own wants and needs.

That topic has been covered before.

As I said, give reparations. How much do you give? One can argue that any amount is not enough. In fact, I'm sure that's what they WOULD argue. Keep the tap flowing.

So, I'd give them some money. But, only under the condition that we truly "undo" the wrong done to them. And, send them back from where they came from. Forfeit US citizenship and go back to their home countries. How many want to sign up to do that?

Very few. If any.

Sad as it might be - descendants of slaves today that are in the USA are better off than they'd have been if their ancestors had stayed in Africa. Oh, I know, that sounds awful. But, not untrue.



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Originally Posted by AtticBat
I'm willing to tell them to fuck off right now. I have nothing to do with their situation and don't really give two shits how they manage. You don't agree? Then you pay them to sit and whine.


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In this world nothing is fair and very little is right. We cannot go through life whining about past. We must stand up and do for our selves. Blacks weren't the only slaves, and not all whites were slave owners. Slavery was the way of life back then. As horrid as that sounds now it cannot be changed. People need to get over their selves and live their life.

My family didn't own slaves and I will not pay reparations to descendants of slaves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darthbob88
Spoken like someone who benefits from past injustice.

I see you have it all figured out. Dude you don't know squat. You don't know me. You don't know the life I've led. You don't know the hardships I've endured.

You want reparations? Fine, you pay them. I'm not playing your white guilt game.
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Old 04-16-2019, 02:44 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by AtticBat
I'm willing to tell them to fuck off right now. I have nothing to do with their situation and don't really give two shits how they manage. You don't agree? Then you pay them to sit and whine.


Quote:
In this world nothing is fair and very little is right. We cannot go through life whining about past. We must stand up and do for our selves. Blacks weren't the only slaves, and not all whites were slave owners. Slavery was the way of life back then. As horrid as that sounds now it cannot be changed. People need to get over their selves and live their life.

My family didn't own slaves and I will not pay reparations to descendants of slaves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darthbob88
Spoken like someone who benefits from past injustice.

I see you have it all figured out. Dude you don't know squat. You don't know me. You don't know the life I've led. You don't know the hardships I've endured.

You want reparations? Fine, you pay them. I'm not playing your white guilt game.
It's always terribly satisfying to see a conservative just admit that they're tremendous assholes.

Also, has anybody else ever noticed that "Life's not fair, deal with it" only applies to other people? Comrade Bat here is very clearly not just dealing with the notion that he as a White American might have some responsibility to the people whose oppression benefited his ancestors.
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Old 04-16-2019, 03:12 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by darthbob88
It's always terribly satisfying to see a conservative just admit that they're tremendous assholes.

Also, has anybody else ever noticed that "Life's not fair, deal with it" only applies to other people? Comrade Bat here is very clearly not just dealing with the notion that he as a White American might have some responsibility to the people whose oppression benefited his ancestors.


I’m glad you’re terribly satisfied. So what makes me a tremendous asshole darth? Because I don’t care how the poor mistreated blacks manage to survive? I’ve got news for you, I don’t care how any people of every other race manage either. There have been plenty of oppressed people in America. The Irish. The Italians. The Chinese. All treated like shit to make their way in this country. Why is it only the blacks crying about reparations? All the rest did what they had to do. They didn’t piss and moan about the past. They put their work boots on and dealt with it.

And you can lose the comrade bullshit, my screen name is Atticbat. I spent 6 years of my life in the Army defending this country from communism.
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Old 04-16-2019, 04:21 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by AtticBat
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthbob88
It's always terribly satisfying to see a conservative just admit that they're tremendous assholes.

Also, has anybody else ever noticed that "Life's not fair, deal with it" only applies to other people? Comrade Bat here is very clearly not just dealing with the notion that he as a White American might have some responsibility to the people whose oppression benefited his ancestors.


I’m glad you’re terribly satisfied. So what makes me a tremendous asshole darth? Because I don’t care how the poor mistreated blacks manage to survive? I’ve got news for you, I don’t care how any people of every other race manage either. There have been plenty of oppressed people in America. The Irish. The Italians. The Chinese. All treated like shit to make their way in this country. Why is it only the blacks crying about reparations? All the rest did what they had to do. They didn’t piss and moan about the past. They put their work boots on and dealt with it.
That paragraph doesn't help, but was thinking of the "I'm willing to tell them to fuck off now" stuff.
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And you can lose the comrade bullshit, my screen name is Atticbat. I spent 6 years of my life in the Army defending this country from communism.
No you didn't, but I hear what you're saying Comrade Atticbat.
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Old 04-16-2019, 04:32 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by darthbob88
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Originally Posted by AtticBat


I’m glad you’re terribly satisfied. So what makes me a tremendous asshole darth? Because I don’t care how the poor mistreated blacks manage to survive? I’ve got news for you, I don’t care how any people of every other race manage either. There have been plenty of oppressed people in America. The Irish. The Italians. The Chinese. All treated like shit to make their way in this country. Why is it only the blacks crying about reparations? All the rest did what they had to do. They didn’t piss and moan about the past. They put their work boots on and dealt with it.
That paragraph doesn't help, but was thinking of the "I'm willing to tell them to fuck off now" stuff.
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And you can lose the comrade bullshit, my screen name is Atticbat. I spent 6 years of my life in the Army defending this country from communism.
No you didn't, but I hear what you're saying Comrade Atticbat.

Well darth, I'm real sorry your feathers got ruffled.

And if you're going to persist in your little Comrade delusion I'll just consider it one more thing you're wrong about.
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Old 04-16-2019, 05:33 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by AtticBat
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Originally Posted by darthbob88
That paragraph doesn't help, but was thinking of the "I'm willing to tell them to fuck off now" stuff.
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And you can lose the comrade bullshit, my screen name is Atticbat. I spent 6 years of my life in the Army defending this country from communism.
No you didn't, but I hear what you're saying Comrade Atticbat.

Well darth, I'm real sorry your feathers got ruffled.
I mean, I'm not the person you'd be paying hypothetical reparations to, so I really am just amused by the whole thing.
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And if you're going to persist in your little Comrade delusion I'll just consider it one more thing you're wrong about.
As you wish, Mlle. AtticBat.
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Old 04-16-2019, 07:06 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by AtticBat
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Originally Posted by darthbob88
That paragraph doesn't help, but was thinking of the "I'm willing to tell them to fuck off now" stuff.

No you didn't, but I hear what you're saying Comrade Atticbat.

Well darth, I'm real sorry your feathers got ruffled.
I mean, I'm not the person you'd be paying hypothetical reparations to, so I really am just amused by the whole thing.
Quote:
And if you're going to persist in your little Comrade delusion I'll just consider it one more thing you're wrong about.
As you wish, Mlle. AtticBat.


I love how you call other raging assholes, but then continue with saying comrade. Seriously do you not see the hypocrisy or you so rum soaked again that your just fine with it.
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Old 04-16-2019, 07:19 AM   #18
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Reparations to who?
Why should someone who had nothing to do with what happened over a hundred years ago make 'reparations' to the descendants of some, and only some, of those affected way back then?
Where do you draw the line?
The line can wait until after you decide whether there's any reparations to be paid, whether you need to draw the line at all.
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Surely if assistance is being given out it should be on current requirements, letting those people who need the assistance now obtain it, not allocated to the descendants of someone who may or may not have been mistreated way back when.
Another implementation detail that I'm just going to handwave away for now.

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The students voted to pay reparation. Presumably there would have been some who voted against the motion. Does this mean that the remainder of the students can take money from those who voted against it? Where the hell do they get off, spending someone else's money this way?
Where do the Republicans get off, trying to spend my tax dollars on The Wall? That's democracy, sometimes the vote doesn't go your way.

Quote:
If I was a student paying money for tuition I'd damn well expect that money to be spent on tuition. Not given away to someone else. How much do the students at that University owe in student loans?
Georgetown tuition is $50K/year. Another $54/year is negligible.

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As far as I'm concerned reparation starts and finishes with the living, not for some fancied wrong committed some time in history.
That's just your opinion, and I also just noticed that you're also denying that this shit happened. No, we have records of the 272 slaves who were sold to finance Georgetown U.


First off your comparison is a wee bit off. Your getting something out of your tax dollars, whether or not you agree with it you still got something. Then we move on to tuition. Those people are paying for a service. They are not paying a tax, they are being forced to pay a price hike on a service. If a company did this you would be up in arms that a company was forcing you to pay extra, for something that was not part of your service. Lastly they are not getting anything out of the fee, whether they agree with it or not they still get jack shit for it. So try again your comparison is not even close.


Next I wouldn't say half a million dollars paid in by the student body is an negligible amount. Even using your logic of breaking it down soo it sounds like a small deal, doesn't really matter because the principle of it is just wrong.
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Old 04-16-2019, 07:30 AM   #19
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I'm willing to tell them to fuck off right now. I have nothing to do with their situation and don't really give two shits how they manage. You don't agree? Then you pay them to sit and whine.




Quote:
Originally Posted by darthbob88
Spoken like someone who benefits from past injustice.

I see you have it all figured out. Dude you don't know squat. You don't know me. You don't know the life I've led. You don't know the hardships I've endured.

You want reparations? Fine, you pay them. I'm not playing your white guilt game.
It's always terribly satisfying to see a conservative just admit that they're tremendous assholes.

Also, has anybody else ever noticed that "Life's not fair, deal with it" only applies to other people? Comrade Bat here is very clearly not just dealing with the notion that he as a White American might have some responsibility to the people whose oppression benefited his ancestors.



Hahaha life is not fair only applies to other people. What fantasy world you living in. It applies to most people. But to the point what exactly as a white American are my responsibilities to people that were oppressed in the past. I am 3rd generation in this country from a large chunk of my ancestors. So none of my ancestors benefited from slaves on that side. Another large chunk of my ancestors were Irish, who were also oppressed in this country. So please do tell darth as a white American what the fuck do I owe anyone.


We are basically back to your racism. If your white you must be evil and pay for past sins. You realize you are a racist right?


Lastly your white. What are you paying to people. How have you helped black people. Have you actually done a dam thing, or you just as bad as the people you bash on. I'm willing to bet you have done nothing, but you will have some righteous excuse as to why your better than the other white people and you like your stuff to much to help.
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Old 04-16-2019, 03:13 PM   #20
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It becomes too much when someone is supposed to be responsible for what their ancestors did, if that is the case then anyone whose parents, grandparents or anyone else in their lineage has done something wrong or illegal is responsible for them and should be punished accordingly.
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