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Old 03-13-2019, 02:12 AM   #1
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Old 03-13-2019, 03:09 AM   #2
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Tax yourself into prosperity.
Take the money off those who earn it and spend, spend, spend, on all your favourite causes.
Pretty soon you run out of taxes to spend so lift them some more.
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Old 03-13-2019, 05:09 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by ASHSON
Tax yourself into prosperity.
Take the money off those who earn it and spend, spend, spend, on all your favourite causes.
Pretty soon you run out of taxes to spend so lift them some more.
This mindset is wrong in several ways, but the most common sense one is- Where does the money go, that we'll run out of it? I get that if we tax the tits off of Elongated Muskrat and redistribute his billions to the rest of the country, next year he will have neither tits nor enough wealth to tax, but that money's still going to be there to tax. We might have to start hitting the mere upper middle class, but as long as we keep redistributing money back into the national economy, we're not going to just run out of money.
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Old 03-13-2019, 06:14 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by darthbob88
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASHSON
Tax yourself into prosperity.
Take the money off those who earn it and spend, spend, spend, on all your favourite causes.
Pretty soon you run out of taxes to spend so lift them some more.
This mindset is wrong in several ways, but the most common sense one is- Where does the money go, that we'll run out of it? I get that if we tax the tits off of Elongated Muskrat and redistribute his billions to the rest of the country, next year he will have neither tits nor enough wealth to tax, but that money's still going to be there to tax. We might have to start hitting the mere upper middle class, but as long as we keep redistributing money back into the national economy, we're not going to just run out of money.


Say what. So if we go ahead completely fund college for kids, and we spend all of joe schmos riches for text books for the college kids, your saying we can tax the college books. You seem to think none of that money never comes out of rotation. Not to mention you seem to think people will continue to strive to make millions. Why try to make all that money if you don't get to use it. Make right up to the max tax line then take the rest of the year off.

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Old 03-13-2019, 06:15 AM   #5
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The actual affect of steadily increased taxation is the removal of the incentives to make money. Why work like a dog for years to establish yourself if your future rewards are going to be stolen from you by governmental decree?
Why would a doctor or a lawyer study for years and then work for a pittance for a few more years if it wasn't for the future rewards? Rewards that you want to take off them in the name of equality.

Governments don't generate wealth, no matter how many people they hire. Government is an overhead on the wealth of the country and government spending is a constant drain on the economy.
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Old 03-13-2019, 06:27 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASHSON
The actual affect of steadily increased taxation is the removal of the incentives to make money. Why work like a dog for years to establish yourself if your future rewards are going to be stolen from you by governmental decree?
Why would a doctor or a lawyer study for years and then work for a pittance for a few more years if it wasn't for the future rewards? Rewards that you want to take off them in the name of equality.

Governments don't generate wealth, no matter how many people they hire. Government is an overhead on the wealth of the country and government spending is a constant drain on the economy.


Ya I don't think darth realizes everytime you give away free money you have to make a department to hand out that free. Free college, oh we need somewhere for students to apply for free money. Oh free health care, we need some where for the hospitals to send bills to get paid.

Lastly he really doesn't get wealth distribution. Take from the rich give to the poor, we now have a whole country of doing mildly well people, so who you going to tax. Then as he says we will tax the high middle class, So the low middle class now becomes middle class, and the high middle class now becomes middle class. Opps no one is left to tax.
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:05 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthbob88
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASHSON
Tax yourself into prosperity.
Take the money off those who earn it and spend, spend, spend, on all your favourite causes.
Pretty soon you run out of taxes to spend so lift them some more.
This mindset is wrong in several ways, but the most common sense one is- Where does the money go, that we'll run out of it? I get that if we tax the tits off of Elongated Muskrat and redistribute his billions to the rest of the country, next year he will have neither tits nor enough wealth to tax, but that money's still going to be there to tax. We might have to start hitting the mere upper middle class, but as long as we keep redistributing money back into the national economy, we're not going to just run out of money.

OK then the U.S. placed a 90% on all forms of Entertainment, you know Disney movies and the like, Pro sports, etc. and a 90% on any who earns more the 1 million dollar in the careers of Actor, Producer, Director, or Writer of visual media entertainment and players on pro sports! Why them, because their wealth is renewable. That is the big buzz word now.

Why did I pic them, because the vast majority of them are left leading in their politics. So they should be more then happy to do this for the good of the nation!
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:37 AM   #8
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People like Darthbob88 scare me because they are either incredibly naive and stupid or they are evil.

The problem with socialism - as has been pointed out by famous people - is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

And, as Ashson also correctly points out - you remove the incentive to bust your ass to build something if the government is just going to take half of it from you to give to those who didn't build anything.

You see it all the time. I believe it was Maryland that decided to tax millionaires more and more and they started leaving the state.

With no income tax - and better weather - its not rocket science as to why so many people from the highly taxed northeast flock to Florida and even Tennessee.
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:41 AM   #9
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I'd be in favor of taxing Hollywood and professional athletes incredibly more. Most are not doing anything but increasing their own personal wealth. Besides having a personal assistant or three, most of them are just lining their bank account. I heard one former football player (Cris Carter, I believe) talking about another's contract situation (Antonio Brown) and Carter said, "$30 million is nothing". Really?

First of all, getting paid $30 million to play a game is crazy. So, why not tax them at say, 50%? They're still getting $15 million. That's plenty.

Same with Hollywood mega stars. After all, Bill argued that Reagan didn't stop making movies because higher taxes. So, according to Bill, they'll still make movies, right? Why not tax them at 50% when they are making $20 million to star in a movie?
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Old 03-13-2019, 12:51 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASHSON
The actual affect of steadily increased taxation is the removal of the incentives to make money. Why work like a dog for years to establish yourself if your future rewards are going to be stolen from you by governmental decree?
Why would a doctor or a lawyer study for years and then work for a pittance for a few more years if it wasn't for the future rewards? Rewards that you want to take off them in the name of equality.
For one thing, there are non-financial reasons to become a doctor or a lawyer. Even so, taxation doesn't remove the incentive to work harder, it merely reduces it. Even if some significant percentage gets chopped off for taxes, a quarter-million per year as a doctor is still a damn sight more than I'd make stocking shelves at Safeway.
Quote:
Governments don't generate wealth, no matter how many people they hire. Government is an overhead on the wealth of the country and government spending is a constant drain on the economy.
Counter-hypothetical:
Supposing I put together a road crew, and we go around the county repairing people's driveways and filling potholes and such. This is the glorious free market at work, customer and service provider coming together to make a mutual profit.
Supposing further the county government steps in, and just puts Darthbob Road Crew Inc on retainer to fix holes in their roads. We still get paid the same amount by the same people to do the same work, it just comes from tax dollars rather than directly from wallets.
Supposing further the county just hires my crew outright, as local government employees. We still do the same work for the same people for the same pay, but now we're drawing a government salary instead of working in the private sector.
At what point did my crew and I stop generating wealth?
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Old 03-13-2019, 01:28 PM   #11
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Default I am NOT disagreeing with you but . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
I'd be in favor of taxing Hollywood and professional athletes incredibly more. Most are not doing anything but increasing their own personal wealth. Besides having a personal assistant or three, most of them are just lining their bank account. I heard one former football player (Cris Carter, I believe) talking about another's contract situation (Antonio Brown) and Carter said, "$30 million is nothing". Really?

First of all, getting paid $30 million to play a game is crazy. So, why not tax them at say, 50%? They're still getting $15 million. That's plenty.

Same with Hollywood mega stars. After all, Bill argued that Reagan didn't stop making movies because higher taxes. So, according to Bill, they'll still make movies, right? Why not tax them at 50% when they are making $20 million to star in a movie?

That's strange because the salaries/earnings of entertainers and athletes are based on the law of supply and demand, a bedrock principle of capitalism
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Old 03-13-2019, 02:13 PM   #12
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There are people out there who claim that taxing fairly will cause wealthy people to leave, or will make us run out of money, or will remove the incentive to enter high-paying professions. They believe this because, well, they don't know what the fuck they are talking about.

Belgium has a 53.7% income tax. The Netherlands has a tax of 52%. Finland's is 51.6%, and Israel's is 50%. These countries each have millionaire and billionaires. They also have ton of doctors and lawyers. And, contrary to popular opinion, these countries still have money. It hasn't mysteriously disappeared.
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Old 03-13-2019, 02:14 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthbob88
For one thing, there are non-financial reasons to become a doctor or a lawyer. Even so, taxation doesn't remove the incentive to work harder, it merely reduces it. Even if some significant percentage gets chopped off for taxes, a quarter-million per year as a doctor is still a damn sight more than I'd make stocking shelves at Safeway.

Maybe you want to rethink this, or just actually get educated about what you think you want

Why Cuban cab drivers earn more than doctors

Quote:
On his worst days, Rafa, a Cuban taxi driver, makes $60 from all his rides. A doctor in Cuba makes around $45 in a month. The colossal disparity between these two salaries is one of the many perplexing realities of the Cuban economy.

.
.
.

"I have to pay $20 per day in taxes. But after that, all the money goes straight to me." Armando has tapped into the hottest market in Cuba from which to extract his fortune: tourism. He can charge between $20 and $25 per ride to the airport. Doing that a few times per day plus some rides within the city puts him at around $1,500 per month in profits, over 30 times more than the average physician’s monthly pay of around $45.

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Old 03-13-2019, 02:24 PM   #14
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Maybe you want to rethink this, or just actually get educated about what you think you want

Why Cuban cab drivers earn more than doctors

Quote:
On his worst days, Rafa, a Cuban taxi driver, makes $60 from all his rides. A doctor in Cuba makes around $45 in a month. The colossal disparity between these two salaries is one of the many perplexing realities of the Cuban economy.

.
.
.

"I have to pay $20 per day in taxes. But after that, all the money goes straight to me." Armando has tapped into the hottest market in Cuba from which to extract his fortune: tourism. He can charge between $20 and $25 per ride to the airport. Doing that a few times per day plus some rides within the city puts him at around $1,500 per month in profits, over 30 times more than the average physician’s monthly pay of around $45.

Doesn't apply here. That comes from the difference between free market income and state-controlled wages. I'm just proposing taxes on free market income.
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Old 03-13-2019, 02:35 PM   #15
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Maybe you want to rethink this, or just actually get educated about what you think you want

Why Cuban cab drivers earn more than doctors

Doesn't apply here. That comes from the difference between free market income and state-controlled wages. I'm just proposing taxes on free market income.
That statement alone proves why free markets are better than socialism
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Old 03-13-2019, 05:23 PM   #16
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That's strange because the salaries/earnings of entertainers and athletes are based on the law of supply and demand, a bedrock principle of capitalism
But, but, but... They seem to think capitalism is only good for conservatives and since, in their opinion, athletes and actors are liberal we should tax them differently.
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Old 03-13-2019, 07:56 PM   #17
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Doesn't apply here. That comes from the difference between free market income and state-controlled wages. I'm just proposing taxes on free market income.
That statement alone proves why free markets are better than socialism
Not really. Socialism and free markets work together just fine. What it proves is the problems with ideologically-driven central planning, and even then the market isn't always better.
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Old 03-13-2019, 08:06 PM   #18
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I'd be in favor of taxing Hollywood and professional athletes incredibly more. Most are not doing anything but increasing their own personal wealth. Besides having a personal assistant or three, most of them are just lining their bank account. I heard one former football player (Cris Carter, I believe) talking about another's contract situation (Antonio Brown) and Carter said, "$30 million is nothing". Really?

First of all, getting paid $30 million to play a game is crazy. So, why not tax them at say, 50%? They're still getting $15 million. That's plenty.

Same with Hollywood mega stars. After all, Bill argued that Reagan didn't stop making movies because higher taxes. So, according to Bill, they'll still make movies, right? Why not tax them at 50% when they are making $20 million to star in a movie?

That's strange because the salaries/earnings of entertainers and athletes are based on the law of supply and demand, a bedrock principle of capitalism
And they're one of the canonical argument that large incomes are perfectly just. There are probably about a million people who would be willing to pay LeBron James $10 for him to keep sportsballing, so we can't say that it's unjust for LeBron to get that $10 million through consensual deals.
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Old 03-13-2019, 08:41 PM   #19
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Might I point out that there is a big difference between being wealthy and having a lot of money. Elton Musk has a house worth $17m+ in Bel Air. That is not money and he can't spend that house. If his taxes go up too high he might be stretched to maintain that property and would have to sell it, or possibly sell it just to pay his taxes. He immediately runs into a problem as all the other rich people are in the same boat and want to sell their own expensive houses, but no one wants to buy them. The upper end of the hosing market collapses. No problems. Just sell shares. Same problem. All the other rich people are selling shares to meet their tax bill. The share market takes a nose dive.
You can't pay the government with shares or real estate as they can't spend that. They want money. The only way for the wealthy to get actual cash is to sell things they own.

Might I point out that something like this actually happened in Great Britain. Wealthy estates were taxed out of existence. People finished up giving the National Trust huge mansions and things because they couldn't afford to keep them.
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Old 03-13-2019, 08:50 PM   #20
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Counter-hypothetical:
Supposing I put together a road crew, and we go around the county repairing people's driveways and filling potholes and such. This is the glorious free market at work, customer and service provider coming together to make a mutual profit.
Supposing further the county government steps in, and just puts Darthbob Road Crew Inc on retainer to fix holes in their roads. We still get paid the same amount by the same people to do the same work, it just comes from tax dollars rather than directly from wallets.
Supposing further the county just hires my crew outright, as local government employees. We still do the same work for the same people for the same pay, but now we're drawing a government salary instead of working in the private sector.
At what point did my crew and I stop generating wealth?
At the point where you started taking money out of my pocket to pay for work done on your property.
When you were a private contractor you had to provide good service to the people who required it and they would pay you.
As soon as the County hired you they were paying you through local taxes, which means that my taxes have to increase to fund this extra service the County provides. Why should I have to pay more for a service that won't benefit me in any way?
As a private contractor you have an incentive to work hard, do a good job, and earn good money.
As a government employer you turn up for work with no real incentive. You're going to get paid the same no matter how hard you work, so why do that bit extra?
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