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Old 07-06-2018, 03:57 AM   #1
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Politics Government Watchdog praises Trump Official's action

Good

http://www.businessinsider.com/gover...edium=referral



Wow! Finally, well-earned praise from a Government Watchdog.

I hope other Trump appointees follow his example
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Old 07-06-2018, 05:07 AM   #2
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In February, for example, Pruitt suggested global warming could be good for humans.
How dare he suggest such a thing? Doesn't he know that's apostasy? That sort of thing might be true but you should never admit it.
(Increased CO2 has produced record crops world wide.)
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Old 07-06-2018, 05:17 AM   #3
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In February, for example, Pruitt suggested global warming could be good for humans.
How dare he suggest such a thing? Doesn't he know that's apostasy? That sort of thing might be true but you should never admit it.
(Increased CO2 has produced record crops world wide.)
On the other hand, droughts along the Euphrates drove ISIS recruiting.
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Old 07-06-2018, 07:40 AM   #4
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On the other hand, droughts along the Euphrates drove ISIS recruiting.
And those droughts were totally irrelevant to Climate Change.
Droughts have been recorded in that area a number of times, going back a thousand years and more. Droughts come and go. They are not indicative of climate change but of current weather patterns.

* The Akkadian Empire in Syria, 2334 BC - 2193 BC. Destroyed by Drought.
* The Old Kingdom of ancient Egypt, 4200 years ago. The same drought that brought down the Akkadian empire in Syria severely shrank the normal floods on the Nile River in ancient Egypt.
* The Late Bronze Age (LBA) civilization in the Eastern Mediterranean. Around 1200 BC, these Eastern Mediterranean civilizations declined or collapsed. According to a 2013 study in PLOS, studying grains of fossilized pollen shows that this collapse coincided with the onset of a 300-year drought event.
* Modern Syria. A key contributing factor was the nation's devastating drought that began in 1998. This drought was almost certainly Syria's worst in the past 500 years, and likely the worst for at least the past 900 years, according to a 2016 tree ring study by Cook.
(Note that the current drought alludes to other droughts in the same area.)
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Old 07-06-2018, 02:23 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by darthbob88
On the other hand, droughts along the Euphrates drove ISIS recruiting.
And those droughts were totally irrelevant to Climate Change.
Droughts have been recorded in that area a number of times, going back a thousand years and more. Droughts come and go. They are not indicative of climate change but of current weather patterns.
That's no more true than arguing that climate change is irrelevant to agriculture because we have had bumper crops before. Yes, we have had plenty of droughts, especially in that area, but as the planet gets warmer we are going to have more and worse droughts, and more and worse wars over the remaining water.
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Old 07-07-2018, 12:38 AM   #6
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That's no more true than arguing that climate change is irrelevant to agriculture because we have had bumper crops before. Yes, we have had plenty of droughts, especially in that area, but as the planet gets warmer we are going to have more and worse droughts, and more and worse wars over the remaining water.
The bumper crops are due to a slight increase in CO2 in the atmosphere, CO2 being plant food.
As for your comment on future droughts there is no evidence to support this. Mankind having an impact on the climate is a theory, and an unproven one.
What had been proven is that the base assumptions built into the climate modelling programs are wrong.
Furthermore, scientists are calling it climate change instead of global warming for a reason. They don't know if the climate will become warmer or colder and they're hedging their bets.
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Old 07-07-2018, 01:53 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by darthbob88
That's no more true than arguing that climate change is irrelevant to agriculture because we have had bumper crops before. Yes, we have had plenty of droughts, especially in that area, but as the planet gets warmer we are going to have more and worse droughts, and more and worse wars over the remaining water.
The bumper crops are due to a slight increase in CO2 in the atmosphere, CO2 being plant food.
As for your comment on future droughts there is no evidence to support this. Mankind having an impact on the climate is a theory, and an unproven one.
I didn't even mention human-caused climate change. I'm just saying, things are going to get hotter and dryer, and droughts are going to be more common. As are, bringing it closer to home, Australian bush fires.
Quote:
Furthermore, scientists are calling it climate change instead of global warming for a reason. They don't know if the climate will become warmer or colder and they're hedging their bets.
Nah, it's actually pretty well established that the world's getting warmer over time. Climate change is used for several reasons, but the one I like is Mr Luntz's reason for originating it.
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Old 07-07-2018, 02:58 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by darthbob88
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASHSON
The bumper crops are due to a slight increase in CO2 in the atmosphere, CO2 being plant food.
As for your comment on future droughts there is no evidence to support this. Mankind having an impact on the climate is a theory, and an unproven one.
I didn't even mention human-caused climate change. I'm just saying, things are going to get hotter and dryer, and droughts are going to be more common. As are, bringing it closer to home, Australian bush fires.
Quote:
Furthermore, scientists are calling it climate change instead of global warming for a reason. They don't know if the climate will become warmer or colder and they're hedging their bets.
Nah, it's actually pretty well established that the world's getting warmer over time. Climate change is used for several reasons, but the one I like is Mr Luntz's reason for originating it.
Why do your charts only go back to 1970? I bet 11,000 years ago is was warming at a much faster rate than now. Why have you discounted that weather seems to be cyclical and a way to cleanse the earth.

I don't ever remember seeing drawings of dinosaurs in the snow.. do you? That alone makes you think they are implying that at that time the earth was much hotter an more tropical. I did find this
Quote:
The herbivore would have lived at a latitude around 80 degrees north, high up in the Arctic. While the climate was warmer at that time than it is now, the species probably still endured average winter temperatures of around 43 degrees Fahrenheit and likely saw snow.
so if the arctic got to 43 F the earth was much much hotter then.
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Old 07-07-2018, 04:25 PM   #9
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I didn't even mention human-caused climate change. I'm just saying, things are going to get hotter and dryer, and droughts are going to be more common. As are, bringing it closer to home, Australian bush fires.
Quote:
Furthermore, scientists are calling it climate change instead of global warming for a reason. They don't know if the climate will become warmer or colder and they're hedging their bets.
Nah, it's actually pretty well established that the world's getting warmer over time. Climate change is used for several reasons, but the one I like is Mr Luntz's reason for originating it.
Why do your charts only go back to 1970? I bet 11,000 years ago is was warming at a much faster rate than now. Why have you discounted that weather seems to be cyclical and a way to cleanse the earth.
Because it's irrelevant. Whether this warming trend is caused by humans, natural cycles, or little men from the Moon, the fact remains that shit is getting hotter and we will need to deal with the fact that everything is going to be on fire and/or underwater.

E: Like, winter is a natural weather cycle, but that's not going to stop you grabbing a sweater.
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Last edited by darthbob88 : 07-07-2018 at 04:55 PM.
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Old 07-07-2018, 11:20 PM   #10
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They just don't get it. Basically, because they are trying to push and Al Gore agenda "if you'd just buy some carbon credits, we can use the money to do something" as Gore takes private jets to Davos...

The climate goes in cycles - as you pointed out.

What do people like Darthbob88 think we need to do, exactly? We keep hearing alarmists say, "if we do nothing then we will be dead in 20 years" or whatever outlandish scare tactic is out there.

Did Al Gore get it right? Apparently, not yet.
The left just wants to control yet something else - a recurring theme. And, the scientists need to compete for that grant money so they can keep the money rolling in...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentBob
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthbob88
I didn't even mention human-caused climate change. I'm just saying, things are going to get hotter and dryer, and droughts are going to be more common. As are, bringing it closer to home, Australian bush fires.
Quote:
Furthermore, scientists are calling it climate change instead of global warming for a reason. They don't know if the climate will become warmer or colder and they're hedging their bets.
Nah, it's actually pretty well established that the world's getting warmer over time. Climate change is used for several reasons, but the one I like is Mr Luntz's reason for originating it.
Why do your charts only go back to 1970? I bet 11,000 years ago is was warming at a much faster rate than now. Why have you discounted that weather seems to be cyclical and a way to cleanse the earth.

I don't ever remember seeing drawings of dinosaurs in the snow.. do you? That alone makes you think they are implying that at that time the earth was much hotter an more tropical. I did find this
Quote:
The herbivore would have lived at a latitude around 80 degrees north, high up in the Arctic. While the climate was warmer at that time than it is now, the species probably still endured average winter temperatures of around 43 degrees Fahrenheit and likely saw snow.
so if the arctic got to 43 F the earth was much much hotter then.
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Old 07-07-2018, 11:42 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by darthbob88
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentBob
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthbob88
I didn't even mention human-caused climate change. I'm just saying, things are going to get hotter and dryer, and droughts are going to be more common. As are, bringing it closer to home, Australian bush fires.
Nah, it's actually pretty well established that the world's getting warmer over time. Climate change is used for several reasons, but the one I like is Mr Luntz's reason for originating it.
Why do your charts only go back to 1970? I bet 11,000 years ago is was warming at a much faster rate than now. Why have you discounted that weather seems to be cyclical and a way to cleanse the earth.
Because it's irrelevant. Whether this warming trend is caused by humans, natural cycles, or little men from the Moon, the fact remains that shit is getting hotter and we will need to deal with the fact that everything is going to be on fire and/or underwater.

E: Like, winter is a natural weather cycle, but that's not going to stop you grabbing a sweater.

My issue is the "but we have to do something" is said by those that are not actually willing to do anything themselves, what they are actually saying is "I am willing to accept what every sacrifice we can force someone else to have to made". Al Gore, George Clooney, etc. say this over and over, just with far prettier language, but the meaning in the same.

Also have you looked at your own sources. The one about Global Warming vs. Climate change. Noticed the difference between 1890 and 2010 is only 0.7 degrees C. Now how did we measure temperature in 1890? And how do we measure temperature today? How much difference is there is accuracy of the temperature measurements?

Also look at the data contained in the two world maps. The one showing temperature change, what do you notice about the United States? Hint its in the zero change category!!! We are told the U.S. is the wrold's worse polluter, we are the nation most responsible for climate change. IF that is true, why are we experiencing the least of it?
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Old 07-08-2018, 12:37 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by iron_warmonger
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Originally Posted by darthbob88
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentBob
Why do your charts only go back to 1970? I bet 11,000 years ago is was warming at a much faster rate than now. Why have you discounted that weather seems to be cyclical and a way to cleanse the earth.
Because it's irrelevant. Whether this warming trend is caused by humans, natural cycles, or little men from the Moon, the fact remains that shit is getting hotter and we will need to deal with the fact that everything is going to be on fire and/or underwater.

E: Like, winter is a natural weather cycle, but that's not going to stop you grabbing a sweater.

My issue is the "but we have to do something" is said by those that are not actually willing to do anything themselves, what they are actually saying is "I am willing to accept what every sacrifice we can force someone else to have to made". Al Gore, George Clooney, etc. say this over and over, just with far prettier language, but the meaning in the same.
Counter-article.

Quote:
Also have you looked at your own sources. The one about Global Warming vs. Climate change. Noticed the difference between 1890 and 2010 is only 0.7 degrees C. Now how did we measure temperature in 1890? And how do we measure temperature today? How much difference is there is accuracy of the temperature measurements?
We've had reasonably precise thermocouples since some time in the 1800s, and I'm pretty sure mercury thermometers were entirely capable of measuring down to the hundredth of a degree. Beyond that, mate, any inaccuracy in the instruments is going to get wiped out in the actual variance of the data. All precision would get is a fuzzier line. But if you're serious, here's some data for you to look over.
Quote:
Also look at the data contained in the two world maps. The one showing temperature change, what do you notice about the United States? Hint its in the zero change category!!! We are told the U.S. is the wrold's worse polluter, we are the nation most responsible for climate change. IF that is true, why are we experiencing the least of it?
...You are aware that gas spreads and dissipates, that it doesn't just sit above us and make us warm? Go sit in the corner.

E: Plus, I'm still not talking about doing anything about our carbon emissions, just the need to be aware of the effects of climate change.
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Old 07-08-2018, 02:54 AM   #13
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So somehow calling for others to "reduce there carbon footprint" is OK, when you are not wiling to many any changes what so ever in your own life? That is the only proves more of my theory about the Left and the seeking of dominion other others.

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We've had reasonably precise thermocouples since some time in the 1800s, and I'm pretty sure mercury thermometers were entirely capable of measuring down to the hundredth of a degree.

Do you understand how a mercury thermometer works? Do you have the visual power to determine the precise tenth of a millimeter when measuring with a ruler? Because if you don't you can't measure temperature to the temperature that accuracy with a mercury thermometer!

And do you even know how a Thermocouple works? Do you have any understanding of electrical amplification works and how it was done in the 1890's? Again the principle of how a TC work was know in 1820, it called the Seebeck effect, but precision amplifiers did not exists until much much later. And in truth it really has been only recently that cost effect TC technology has come into use, because there are still a lot of RTC and thermister out there.
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Old 07-08-2018, 04:01 AM   #14
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So somehow calling for others to "reduce there carbon footprint" is OK, when you are not wiling to many any changes what so ever in your own life? That is the only proves more of my theory about the Left and the seeking of dominion other others.
a) That's not what it says.
B) Not really, unless you want to explain what dominion DiCaprio et al are claiming over other people, and "asking people to please do a thing" does not count.
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Old 07-08-2018, 07:16 AM   #15
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B) Not really, unless you want to explain what dominion DiCaprio et al are claiming over other people, and "asking people to please do a thing" does not count.
It's the influence these people have within institutions and the government that's the problem.
Once the politicians are sold on the idea they institute draconian measures, all for the good of the people. One extreme example is the South Australian government. The government were convinced that climate change had to be dealt with now. How? By getting rid of those coal fired power stations. Their power prices are now the world's most expensive and are totally unreliable. They're finding that when the sun doesn't shine and the wind doesn't blow, the power doesn't flow.
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Old 07-08-2018, 02:36 PM   #16
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Except they are asking people to "do a thing". Join punitive climate accords that continues to let the worst polluters (China and India, for example) to continue polluting while forcing crazy regulations on other nations.

The environmental debate is fascinating to me. The left shout down anyone that dares to ask a question. They say the science is 'settled'. 'Settled' meaning what they say goes. And, the key linchpin in their argument is that it is man-made. Otherwise, if it were natural cycles and man's role was severely limited then most people would question why we need to kill off the combustion engine, stop using fossil fuels and otherwise throw billions (and probably trillions) of dollars at 'green' energy.

You want to get off fossil fuels? Go with nuclear power. It is relatively safe these days but the greenies just mention Chernobyl and Three Mile Island and it scares the shit out of everyone.



Quote:
Originally Posted by darthbob88
Quote:
Originally Posted by iron_warmonger
So somehow calling for others to "reduce there carbon footprint" is OK, when you are not wiling to many any changes what so ever in your own life? That is the only proves more of my theory about the Left and the seeking of dominion other others.
a) That's not what it says.
B) Not really, unless you want to explain what dominion DiCaprio et al are claiming over other people, and "asking people to please do a thing" does not count.
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Old 07-08-2018, 03:26 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthbob88
B) Not really, unless you want to explain what dominion DiCaprio et al are claiming over other people, and "asking people to please do a thing" does not count.
It's the influence these people have within institutions and the government that's the problem.
Once the politicians are sold on the idea they institute draconian measures, all for the good of the people. One extreme example is the South Australian government. The government were convinced that climate change had to be dealt with now. How? By getting rid of those coal fired power stations. Their power prices are now the world's most expensive and are totally unreliable. They're finding that when the sun doesn't shine and the wind doesn't blow, the power doesn't flow.
I'm pretty sure that's not what iron_warmonger meant by dominion over others, but yeah, that's a problem. They really should have thought ahead and gotten something in place to cover base load before shutting down all that coal. Practicality over ideology.

Although I did just realize one of the bigger issues with this environmental stuff is the cost differential and the classism it creates, so you might want to think about that.

E: Also, Rising sea levels [as a result of climate change] could cost the world $14 trillion a year by 2100
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Old 07-08-2018, 05:34 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASHSON
It's the influence these people have within institutions and the government that's the problem.
Once the politicians are sold on the idea they institute draconian measures, all for the good of the people. One extreme example is the South Australian government. The government were convinced that climate change had to be dealt with now. How? By getting rid of those coal fired power stations. Their power prices are now the world's most expensive and are totally unreliable. They're finding that when the sun doesn't shine and the wind doesn't blow, the power doesn't flow.
I'm pretty sure that's not what iron_warmonger meant by dominion over others, but yeah, that's a problem. They really should have thought ahead and gotten something in place to cover base load before shutting down all that coal. Practicality over ideology.

Although I did just realize one of the bigger issues with this environmental stuff is the cost differential and the classism it creates, so you might want to think about that.

E: Also, Rising sea levels [as a result of climate change] could cost the world $14 trillion a year by 2100

No, that is EXACTLY what I meant, by Dominion over people. IT part of the two sets of rules, they rules they want to force other to live by and those that feel apply to themselves. That has been true about the Democratic party since it founding.

In the 1960 the U.S. via various means accurately mapped the ice sheets of the earth. In the 1970, during the first round of "environmental fear mongering" it was said that if all the ice on the planet melted the seas woudl rise 13 to 14 feat. That number continues to go up, today is 260 feet. Where did all the extra ice come from? Also I have see the "maps" of what say the earth will look like if all the ice melts. They so my second of Michigan under water, but my home is 542 feet above sea level, so how is 260 great then 542? Again fear mongering, being used to cause individuals to give up there freedoms, which has always been the goal.
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Old 07-08-2018, 07:13 PM   #19
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I read that article defending DiCaprio. Using this logic, one should just throw their garbage in the lake. After all, one person's pollution wont really make a difference.

Counter-article.
[/quote]
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Old 07-08-2018, 07:38 PM   #20
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I read that article defending DiCaprio. Using this logic, one should just throw their garbage in the lake. After all, one person's pollution wont really make a difference.

Counter-article.
[/quote]

This all goes back to my original statement, which to expand upon, the one things you will never see anyone on the left do, about climate change, or anything else is "Lead by Example"! Sacrifices are always for someone else to make.

Even the article in question says "We've got to stop using fossil fuels as rapidly as possible. Doing that will mean some mix of technological, political, and social change. Undoubtedly lifestyle changes will come along with any such transition." But in no way is anyone of those called for such going to make such a "lifestyle change".

Best Example, hollywood can't make movies or TV show in the U.S. anymore. They will give you a number of reason, but in truth its for the tax breaks and the lost cost of overseas help. And how many of those massively over paid stars fly to the sets on private aircraft? (And by over paid, RDJ was paid 50 million dollar for Avengers Infinite War) Humans circumnavigated the globe with Wood and Canvas, why can't Hollywood today do it with Steal and Nylon? So they might only to do one project a year, that one project still will pay them how many lifetimes worth of income? I think they can afford it.
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