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Old 11-18-2017, 11:02 PM   #1
iron_warmonger
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Economy 20%

Ok, the new tax plan had a reduction of the business taxes from 35% to 20%, which is what businesses have been saying for years is necessary.

So my questions, assuming this get passed,what reason is there businesses to move manufacturing back to the U.S. create jobs in the U.S. rather then just leaving the jobs over seas and pocketing the savings on taxes?

Assuming you can answer, as the answer is that jobs will be created, that one how about the rest:

How long will it take for the U.S. U-6 unemployment number to be below 4%?

How long until the average American wage is again only a 39th that of the Average CEO?

When will the majority of Americans have retirement benefits that includes Pensions, or something akin to what CEO get?
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Old 11-18-2017, 11:24 PM   #2
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I'm still on retirement plan-A, work till I die.
Plan-B is win the lottery.
I don't foresee a Plan-C.
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Old 11-19-2017, 12:00 AM   #3
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by iron_warmonger
Ok, the new tax plan had a reduction of the business taxes from 35% to 20%, which is what businesses have been saying for years is necessary.
They say the reduction is necessary because 35% corporate taxes don't allow the CEOs to buy new yachts and hire crews for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iron_warmonger
what reason is there businesses to move manufacturing back to the U.S. create jobs in the U.S. rather then just leaving the jobs over seas and pocketing the savings on taxes?
There is absolutely no reason for that to ever happen. In fact, whatever extra money doesn't go into the CEO's pocket will go into financing more overseas factories where children can make products for a dollar a day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iron_warmonger
the answer is that jobs will be created
In the field of porcine aeronautics, perhaps. Beyond that, after the tax reduction, there will only be growth in the yacht-crew market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iron_warmonger
How long will it take for the U.S. U-6 unemployment number to be below 4%?
How long until the average American wage is again only a 39th that of the Average CEO?
When will the majority of Americans have retirement benefits that includes Pensions, or something akin to what CEO get?
None of these things will ever happen.
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Old 11-19-2017, 01:20 AM   #4
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That's hilarious...



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Old 11-19-2017, 02:59 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iron_warmonger
Ok, the new tax plan had a reduction of the business taxes from 35% to 20%, which is what businesses have been saying for years is necessary.

So my questions, assuming this get passed,what reason is there businesses to move manufacturing back to the U.S. create jobs in the U.S. rather then just leaving the jobs over seas and pocketing the savings on taxes?

Assuming you can answer, as the answer is that jobs will be created, that one how about the rest:

How long will it take for the U.S. U-6 unemployment number to be below 4%?

How long until the average American wage is again only a 39th that of the Average CEO?

When will the majority of Americans have retirement benefits that includes Pensions, or something akin to what CEO get?
A very long time, apparently; executives have indicated that this tax cut isn't going to increase investment much, and that they'd put more of it into paying down debt or buying back stock. All that money's going right back to Wall Street, not to Main Street.

The real way to get things done, IMHO, would be to make that tax cut a conditional reward; if job creators can get U6 <4%, CEO wage:average wage >1:39, and solid pensions, then business tax will be cut to 20%, otherwise it stays at 35% or possibly even higher.

E: Granted, this would run into Goodhart's law, but that's why we'd use multiple metrics, so it's hard to game unemployment and wages and pensions simultaneously.
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Last edited by darthbob88 : 11-19-2017 at 04:36 AM.
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Old 11-19-2017, 06:57 AM   #6
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by garison808
They say the reduction is necessary because 35% corporate taxes don't allow the CEOs to buy new yachts and hire crews for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iron_warmonger
what reason is there businesses to move manufacturing back to the U.S. create jobs in the U.S. rather then just leaving the jobs over seas and pocketing the savings on taxes?
There is absolutely no reason for that to ever happen. In fact, whatever extra money doesn't go into the CEO's pocket will go into financing more overseas factories where children can make products for a dollar a day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iron_warmonger
the answer is that jobs will be created
In the field of porcine aeronautics, perhaps. Beyond that, after the tax reduction, there will only be growth in the yacht-crew market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iron_warmonger
How long will it take for the U.S. U-6 unemployment number to be below 4%?
How long until the average American wage is again only a 39th that of the Average CEO?
When will the majority of Americans have retirement benefits that includes Pensions, or something akin to what CEO get?
None of these things will ever happen.


Wow you don't seem to understand that reducing the corp tax will actually take money out the rich bastards hands you hate.
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Old 11-19-2017, 07:04 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthbob88
Quote:
Originally Posted by iron_warmonger
Ok, the new tax plan had a reduction of the business taxes from 35% to 20%, which is what businesses have been saying for years is necessary.

So my questions, assuming this get passed,what reason is there businesses to move manufacturing back to the U.S. create jobs in the U.S. rather then just leaving the jobs over seas and pocketing the savings on taxes?

Assuming you can answer, as the answer is that jobs will be created, that one how about the rest:

How long will it take for the U.S. U-6 unemployment number to be below 4%?

How long until the average American wage is again only a 39th that of the Average CEO?

When will the majority of Americans have retirement benefits that includes Pensions, or something akin to what CEO get?
A very long time, apparently; executives have indicated that this tax cut isn't going to increase investment much, and that they'd put more of it into paying down debt or buying back stock. All that money's going right back to Wall Street, not to Main Street.

The real way to get things done, IMHO, would be to make that tax cut a conditional reward; if job creators can get U6 <4%, CEO wage:average wage >1:39, and solid pensions, then business tax will be cut to 20%, otherwise it stays at 35% or possibly even higher.

E: Granted, this would run into Goodhart's law, but that's why we'd use multiple metrics, so it's hard to game unemployment and wages and pensions simultaneously.


Wording is great thing. Paying down loans is reinvestment. Next is with lower taxes a company can up its operating cost. Which in reality is reinvestment. What you guys don't seem to get is a company dumps all it money except operating cost so it doesn't have to pay taxes on it. With a lower tax rate it won't be dumping all its money. Which in turns means more money in the company, which also means a bigger operating budget. Techinically none of this is reinvestment because the corp doesn't plan to expand. Do a little more research than the idiot Washington post before you try to argue this.
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Old 11-19-2017, 01:56 PM   #8
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The last I heard, GE pays zero taxes.

What's 20% of nothing?
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Old 11-19-2017, 02:06 PM   #9
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If you don't have the self control to simply ignore what someone has said. There is something wrong with you.

There's something wrong with you.
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Old 11-19-2017, 08:07 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by AtticBat
The last I heard, GE pays zero taxes.

What's 20% of nothing?

That is a another falsehood GE had a 32 billion dollar loss so they had no tax responsibility because their was no earnings. It was more liberal twisting of reality. Once GE was back on track it paid an average worldwide income tax of 29%.
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Old 11-19-2017, 08:08 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garison808
Quote:
Originally Posted by 65dart
If you don't have the self control to simply ignore what someone has said. There is something wrong with you.

There's something wrong with you.


Says the guy that can't just stop himself.
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Old 11-19-2017, 08:18 PM   #12
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If you don't have the self control to simply ignore what someone has said. There is something wrong with you.

There's something wrong with you.
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Old 11-19-2017, 08:53 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65dart
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtticBat
The last I heard, GE pays zero taxes.

What's 20% of nothing?

That is a another falsehood GE had a 32 billion dollar loss so they had no tax responsibility because their was no earnings. It was more liberal twisting of reality. Once GE was back on track it paid an average worldwide income tax of 29%.

Strange Dart that while you answer question from others, you and all the other business defenders were totally silent on the original questions for this thread.

Again, with taxes lowered, why would business invent in the U.S. and create jobs here, vs. keeping the jobs overseas and pocketing the tax savings?
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Old 11-19-2017, 09:20 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iron_warmonger
Quote:
Originally Posted by 65dart

That is a another falsehood GE had a 32 billion dollar loss so they had no tax responsibility because their was no earnings. It was more liberal twisting of reality. Once GE was back on track it paid an average worldwide income tax of 29%.

Strange Dart that while you answer question from others, you and all the other business defenders were totally silent on the original questions for this thread.

Again, with taxes lowered, why would business invent in the U.S. and create jobs here, vs. keeping the jobs overseas and pocketing the tax savings?

Simple if their is no saving on taxes the cost of moving operations over sea would not be worth it. I thought this was pretty obvious. It is a lot more complex than that but that is the simplified form. Another part of this that everyone seems to ignore is that is changing taxes from global to regional. Little hard to pocket the money with going to that structure.
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Old 11-19-2017, 09:25 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iron_warmonger
Quote:
Originally Posted by 65dart

That is a another falsehood GE had a 32 billion dollar loss so they had no tax responsibility because their was no earnings. It was more liberal twisting of reality. Once GE was back on track it paid an average worldwide income tax of 29%.

Strange Dart that while you answer question from others, you and all the other business defenders were totally silent on the original questions for this thread.

Again, with taxes lowered, why would business invent in the U.S. and create jobs here, vs. keeping the jobs overseas and pocketing the tax savings?

Also you seem to be a little confused on how this works. If a corp doesn't want to pay taxes all it has to do is distribute all the money. No profits no taxes. By lowering the tax rate a company will be able to expand it operating budget, which will open up more money inside the company, which inturn creates more jobs and higher wages. From some reason people seem to think this tax break is the government handing the corp a big wad of cash.
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Old 11-19-2017, 11:52 PM   #16
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But the how many job are really left in the U.S. any more? Outsourcing had been going on for 25 years, and that entire time it was promised that it was going to create better jobs for Americans. That has been stated by a former vice president (Cheney), Several Economists and business leaders, and even people on this board. How long will it take, because some of us are running out of career time???

Now we also have been told that "lowering taxes WILL BRING JOBS BACK TO THE U.S." Again I am asking for a time frame, not pretty words that say nothing! You sound a lot like a government offical running for office!
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Old 11-20-2017, 01:42 AM   #17
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Wow you don't seem to understand that reducing the corp tax will actually take money out the rich bastards hands you hate.
WTF!! How do you figure that?
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Old 11-20-2017, 01:44 AM   #18
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Also you seem to be a little confused on how this works. If a corp doesn't want to pay taxes all it has to do is distribute all the money. No profits no taxes.
Distribute the money to what? To whom? How?
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Old 11-20-2017, 01:44 AM   #19
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Wow you don't seem to understand that reducing the corp tax will actually take money out the rich bastards hands you hate.
WTF!! How do you figure that?

Where do you think the company distributes money to avoid paying taxes on it.
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Old 11-20-2017, 01:46 AM   #20
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Also you seem to be a little confused on how this works. If a corp doesn't want to pay taxes all it has to do is distribute all the money. No profits no taxes.
Distribute the money to what? To whom? How?


Its called stocks bill. Not rocket science please educate yourself before speaking.
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