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Old 11-13-2018, 12:53 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by 65dart
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Originally Posted by darthbob88
Still fuck no, you Goddamn moron. If the flat or spherical Earth models were completely and utterly wrong, I would not arrive at the pub or in Sydney, I would land in Safeway or something. I arrive at my destination because these models are close enough to accurate. Isaac Asimov on the subject.
As long as we're making wild claims, we don't have really accurate data for the curvature of the Earth, so it might actually be donut-shaped. No, we have limited and pretty-close-to-accurate data, so even if we can't nail down anthropogenic vs volcanic carbon emissions to three decimal places, we can at least establish the basic facts that volcanoes produce a noticeable amount of CO2, and that humans produce a whole fucking lot more.
More of proving point, if you followed those models you wouldn't arrive at your destination. But your using the power of observation to correct for the failure of the models. You can follow the straight line of a flat map and get close to the pub and then look over and go oh there it is.
What you're saying is that I would not arrive at my destination, but that I would arrive close enough, within an acceptable margin of error?

Alternatively, if you want to hold firm on this, then the Newtonian heliocentric model is completely and utterly wrong, since its prediction for the precession of the perihelion of Mercury was off by 43 arc-seconds per century.

Quote:
But you can't say humans produce a lot more. It is all estimated , based on fuel sales. The actual amount produced for most part remains unmeasured so again wild numbers based on an estimate with several unknowns. You ain't even going to get close.
Burton doesn't know how much CO2 volcanoes emit either, he's just making estimates based on his own measurements. So either a) we accept that we don't really know anything about anything maaan or b) we can make some decent estimates based on what we do know.
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Old 11-13-2018, 01:02 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by 65dart
More of proving point, if you followed those models you wouldn't arrive at your destination. But your using the power of observation to correct for the failure of the models. You can follow the straight line of a flat map and get close to the pub and then look over and go oh there it is.
What you're saying is that I would not arrive at my destination, but that I would arrive close enough, within an acceptable margin of error?

Alternatively, if you want to hold firm on this, then the Newtonian heliocentric model is completely and utterly wrong, since its prediction for the precession of the perihelion of Mercury was off by 43 arc-seconds per century.

Quote:
But you can't say humans produce a lot more. It is all estimated , based on fuel sales. The actual amount produced for most part remains unmeasured so again wild numbers based on an estimate with several unknowns. You ain't even going to get close.
Burton doesn't know how much CO2 volcanoes emit either, he's just making estimates based on his own measurements. So either a) we accept that we don't really know anything about anything maaan or b) we can make some decent estimates based on what we do know.


No what I said is you used power of observation to correct for the inaccuracies. Also again you are trying to compare oranges and apples. All the heliocentric math proved was that earth was not the center of the universe. Which just makes my point your trying to claim accuracies out the climate models, but then saying look lack of data caused this model to be inaccurate. Your arguing against your self at this point.


You can't make a decent estimate. You have current models based on what we measured. You have burton saying hey look here is all this co2 we are missing. I don't know how much we are missing but I know we are missing this. So with lack of data you can't estimate anything.
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Old 11-13-2018, 01:47 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by 65dart
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Originally Posted by darthbob88
What you're saying is that I would not arrive at my destination, but that I would arrive close enough, within an acceptable margin of error?

Alternatively, if you want to hold firm on this, then the Newtonian heliocentric model is completely and utterly wrong, since its prediction for the precession of the perihelion of Mercury was off by 43 arc-seconds per century.

Quote:
But you can't say humans produce a lot more. It is all estimated , based on fuel sales. The actual amount produced for most part remains unmeasured so again wild numbers based on an estimate with several unknowns. You ain't even going to get close.
Burton doesn't know how much CO2 volcanoes emit either, he's just making estimates based on his own measurements. So either a) we accept that we don't really know anything about anything maaan or b) we can make some decent estimates based on what we do know.
No what I said is you used power of observation to correct for the inaccuracies. Also again you are trying to compare oranges and apples. All the heliocentric math proved was that earth was not the center of the universe. Which just makes my point your trying to claim accuracies out the climate models, but then saying look lack of data caused this model to be inaccurate. Your arguing against your self at this point.
There's a reason I specified the Newtonian heliocentric model, because that model proves that the Sun does not orbit the Earth, the Earth orbits the sun, and furthermore that orbit looks like this. Except it's wrong, as I pointed out earlier, because orbits do not look exactly like that.
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You can't make a decent estimate. You have current models based on what we measured. You have burton saying hey look here is all this co2 we are missing. I don't know how much we are missing but I know we are missing this. So with lack of data you can't estimate anything.
Except that Burton himself acknowledged that his estimates are based on limited data, so either you're full of shit and we can in fact make estimates from limited data, or you're full of shit and we really don't have any reason at all to believe that volcanoes produce more than a tenth the CO2 humans produce.
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Old 11-13-2018, 06:19 AM   #64
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A group with beautiful ladies, strange, weird and cool stuff, lots of shit to make you laugh and then you have the trolls that are miserable in their own skin and want to spew their bullshit hate in an attempt to make others as miserable as they are. As Mr. T said..."We pity da fool"
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Old 11-13-2018, 06:47 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by darthbob88
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Originally Posted by 65dart
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Originally Posted by darthbob88
What you're saying is that I would not arrive at my destination, but that I would arrive close enough, within an acceptable margin of error?

Alternatively, if you want to hold firm on this, then the Newtonian heliocentric model is completely and utterly wrong, since its prediction for the precession of the perihelion of Mercury was off by 43 arc-seconds per century.

Burton doesn't know how much CO2 volcanoes emit either, he's just making estimates based on his own measurements. So either a) we accept that we don't really know anything about anything maaan or b) we can make some decent estimates based on what we do know.
No what I said is you used power of observation to correct for the inaccuracies. Also again you are trying to compare oranges and apples. All the heliocentric math proved was that earth was not the center of the universe. Which just makes my point your trying to claim accuracies out the climate models, but then saying look lack of data caused this model to be inaccurate. Your arguing against your self at this point.
There's a reason I specified the Newtonian heliocentric model, because that model proves that the Sun does not orbit the Earth, the Earth orbits the sun, and furthermore that orbit looks like this. Except it's wrong, as I pointed out earlier, because orbits do not look exactly like that.
Quote:
You can't make a decent estimate. You have current models based on what we measured. You have burton saying hey look here is all this co2 we are missing. I don't know how much we are missing but I know we are missing this. So with lack of data you can't estimate anything.
Except that Burton himself acknowledged that his estimates are based on limited data, so either you're full of shit and we can in fact make estimates from limited data, or you're full of shit and we really don't have any reason at all to believe that volcanoes produce more than a tenth the CO2 humans produce.


And again your moving the goal post. The initial point was that the simple math matched observation. Meanwhile the climate scientist simple math does not match any obersvation so they must use estimates on small smaple sizes to get the answers they want.


You apparently didn't pat close attention to what I have said. Burton says he look if we expanded are testing then we have this co2 were are missing. He then also goes on to say much more research is needed to understand the full aspects of volcano's on the co2 scale. He didn't come out with a hack job model because as he himself said his data is limited. That is the difference. He can say he these models are wrong because of this other limited data I have found, but he say more research is needed to fully understand. Get it now. The guy is saying you can't make a model when your ignoring obvious data.
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Old 11-13-2018, 07:02 AM   #66
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A group with beautiful ladies, strange, weird and cool stuff, lots of shit to make you laugh and then you have the trolls that are miserable in their own skin and want to spew their bullshit hate in an attempt to make others as miserable as they are. As Mr. T said..."We pity da fool"


An then we have to ask who truly is the troll. This section was initially created to keep political debates out of the other stuff. It proved popular enough it got expanded as a place to debate. So this section is being used just for that by people that enjoy this. But yet you seem to be the judge of what people are allowed to enjoy. You come in here calling people trolls for what they choose to enjoy. It seems your here to spread hate and discontent , simply because you don't enjoy this. So the only troll here is you. If you don't enjoy the MD you don't need to look at it. So get back and on your high horse and stop trolling.
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Old 11-13-2018, 07:08 AM   #67
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Where the Climate Change models are concerned not one has come close to matching reality. When all your models fail, not one coming even close to the truth of what actually happens, the obvious answer is that the underlying philosophy behind the model is incorrect.
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Old 11-13-2018, 10:53 AM   #68
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The most common sense post on this thread in quite some time.

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Originally Posted by ASHSON
Where the Climate Change models are concerned not one has come close to matching reality. When all your models fail, not one coming even close to the truth of what actually happens, the obvious answer is that the underlying philosophy behind the model is incorrect.
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Old 11-13-2018, 01:21 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by 65dart
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Originally Posted by darthbob88
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Originally Posted by 65dart
No what I said is you used power of observation to correct for the inaccuracies. Also again you are trying to compare oranges and apples. All the heliocentric math proved was that earth was not the center of the universe. Which just makes my point your trying to claim accuracies out the climate models, but then saying look lack of data caused this model to be inaccurate. Your arguing against your self at this point.
There's a reason I specified the Newtonian heliocentric model, because that model proves that the Sun does not orbit the Earth, the Earth orbits the sun, and furthermore that orbit looks like this. Except it's wrong, as I pointed out earlier, because orbits do not look exactly like that.
Quote:
You can't make a decent estimate. You have current models based on what we measured. You have burton saying hey look here is all this co2 we are missing. I don't know how much we are missing but I know we are missing this. So with lack of data you can't estimate anything.
Except that Burton himself acknowledged that his estimates are based on limited data, so either you're full of shit and we can in fact make estimates from limited data, or you're full of shit and we really don't have any reason at all to believe that volcanoes produce more than a tenth the CO2 humans produce.
And again your moving the goal post. The initial point was that the simple math matched observation. Meanwhile the climate scientist simple math does not match any obersvation so they must use estimates on small smaple sizes to get the answers they want.
Except the simple math didn't match observation, to the tune of 43 arc-seconds per century.

Quote:
You apparently didn't pat close attention to what I have said. Burton says he look if we expanded are testing then we have this co2 were are missing. He then also goes on to say much more research is needed to understand the full aspects of volcano's on the co2 scale. He didn't come out with a hack job model because as he himself said his data is limited. That is the difference. He can say he these models are wrong because of this other limited data I have found, but he say more research is needed to fully understand. Get it now. The guy is saying you can't make a model when your ignoring obvious data.
Right, we need to do more research because his limited data is as you've said quite worthless.
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Old 11-13-2018, 01:33 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by darthbob88
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Originally Posted by 65dart
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Originally Posted by darthbob88
There's a reason I specified the Newtonian heliocentric model, because that model proves that the Sun does not orbit the Earth, the Earth orbits the sun, and furthermore that orbit looks like this. Except it's wrong, as I pointed out earlier, because orbits do not look exactly like that.
Quote:
You can't make a decent estimate. You have current models based on what we measured. You have burton saying hey look here is all this co2 we are missing. I don't know how much we are missing but I know we are missing this. So with lack of data you can't estimate anything.
Except that Burton himself acknowledged that his estimates are based on limited data, so either you're full of shit and we can in fact make estimates from limited data, or you're full of shit and we really don't have any reason at all to believe that volcanoes produce more than a tenth the CO2 humans produce.
And again your moving the goal post. The initial point was that the simple math matched observation. Meanwhile the climate scientist simple math does not match any obersvation so they must use estimates on small smaple sizes to get the answers they want.
Except the simple math didn't match observation, to the tune of 43 arc-seconds per century.

Quote:
You apparently didn't pat close attention to what I have said. Burton says he look if we expanded are testing then we have this co2 were are missing. He then also goes on to say much more research is needed to understand the full aspects of volcano's on the co2 scale. He didn't come out with a hack job model because as he himself said his data is limited. That is the difference. He can say he these models are wrong because of this other limited data I have found, but he say more research is needed to fully understand. Get it now. The guy is saying you can't make a model when your ignoring obvious data.
Right, we need to do more research because his limited data is as you've said quite worthless.


So your saying they could see the planet and its rotation. Nope. They could see that night sky appeared to move backwards. So the model did match the observation. Again you want to move those goal post.

So in turn you admit that all the climate changers theories are quite worthless then, and your preaching garbage. It is about time you see the light. Limited data is limited data the difference is I'm going to go with the guy that says hey we got limited data but here is what I'm currently seeing. Not the guy that takes limited date makes an estimate off that, and then takes another estimated number to say this is what will be correct in ten years.

Honestly you know what your preaching is garbage other wise you would have curbed your behavior if you actually believe what your saying.
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Old 11-13-2018, 03:21 PM   #71
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So your saying they could see the planet and its rotation. Nope. They could see that night sky appeared to move backwards. So the model did match the observation. Again you want to move those goal post.
They absolutely could and did see the planet and its orbit. And this is still not moving goalposts, this is a separate argument against your notion that "If a model isn't 100% accurate, it's useless".
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So in turn you admit that all the climate changers theories are quite worthless then, and your preaching garbage. It is about time you see the light. Limited data is limited data the difference is I'm going to go with the guy that says hey we got limited data but here is what I'm currently seeing. Not the guy that takes limited date makes an estimate off that, and then takes another estimated number to say this is what will be correct in ten years.
Data is only useful in that we can use it to make further estimates, to say that if volcanic CO2 is X that's going to produce temperature forcing Y, which means we need policy Z. Just saying "This is what we know and I'm not going any further" is useless.
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Old 11-13-2018, 09:08 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by darthbob88
They absolutely could and did see the planet and its orbit. And this is still not moving goalposts, this is a separate argument against your notion that "If a model isn't 100% accurate, it's useless".
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So in turn you admit that all the climate changers theories are quite worthless then, and your preaching garbage. It is about time you see the light. Limited data is limited data the difference is I'm going to go with the guy that says hey we got limited data but here is what I'm currently seeing. Not the guy that takes limited date makes an estimate off that, and then takes another estimated number to say this is what will be correct in ten years.
Data is only useful in that we can use it to make further estimates, to say that if volcanic CO2 is X that's going to produce temperature forcing Y, which means we need policy Z. Just saying "This is what we know and I'm not going any further" is useless.


This is moving the goal post. It started off with Copernicus and his theory that the earth rotated the sun. Which was well over a 100 years before a planets rotation was viewed. You then moved onto a Newtonian model because you were losing the argument. You can say it is a separate argument, but the truth is that you had to move the goal post to make your argument work. As far as being 100% no that is not what I'm saying. A theory doesn't have to 100%, but when you openly admit that your data collection has a 20% error , then do a estimate that could have 20% error your pushing a 400% error. You then add in observation of all the different models they have produced that have been proven wrong. It shows that any model they come up with cannot even be close.


No you don't seen to understand. If we take this limited data to make a model completely ignoring a subset of data from volcano's, then we cannot accurately figure human impact. Again scientist are ignoring a whole ton of data to get the results they want. They need these results because if it is shown that human impact is not as great as they claim then the global scare is over and the no longer get funding. So no it is not lets ignore this, It is lets collect everything we can, so if a plausible plan can be made, we can do it. Because remember one theory on the warming of Antarctica was the closing of the hole in the ozone layer. In turn if that theory was correct. Electric motors produce 03 adding to the ozone. So by switching to all electric cars we increase the ozone layer which in turns creates warming. We have gained nothing by going electric. This is why setting up a plan on wildly inaccurate data and theories is so dangerous.
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Old 11-13-2018, 09:42 PM   #73
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They absolutely could and did see the planet and its orbit. And this is still not moving goalposts, this is a separate argument against your notion that "If a model isn't 100% accurate, it's useless".
Data is only useful in that we can use it to make further estimates, to say that if volcanic CO2 is X that's going to produce temperature forcing Y, which means we need policy Z. Just saying "This is what we know and I'm not going any further" is useless.


This is moving the goal post. It started off with Copernicus and his theory that the earth rotated the sun. Which was well over a 100 years before a planets rotation was viewed. You then moved onto a Newtonian model because you were losing the argument. You can say it is a separate argument, but the truth is that you had to move the goal post to make your argument work. As far as being 100% no that is not what I'm saying. A theory doesn't have to 100%, but when you openly admit that your data collection has a 20% error , then do a estimate that could have 20% error your pushing a 400% error. You then add in observation of all the different models they have produced that have been proven wrong. It shows that any model they come up with cannot even be close.
I'm tired and hungover, so I'll just settle for MARGINS OF ERROR DO NOT WORK THAT WAY and leave this argument to your delusions.
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Old 11-14-2018, 06:40 AM   #74
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This is moving the goal post. It started off with Copernicus and his theory that the earth rotated the sun. Which was well over a 100 years before a planets rotation was viewed. You then moved onto a Newtonian model because you were losing the argument. You can say it is a separate argument, but the truth is that you had to move the goal post to make your argument work. As far as being 100% no that is not what I'm saying. A theory doesn't have to 100%, but when you openly admit that your data collection has a 20% error , then do a estimate that could have 20% error your pushing a 400% error. You then add in observation of all the different models they have produced that have been proven wrong. It shows that any model they come up with cannot even be close.
I'm tired and hungover, so I'll just settle for MARGINS OF ERROR DO NOT WORK THAT WAY and leave this argument to your delusions.


Nice cop out. But I will leave you with this. So far every model drafted has been drastically wrong. So plain and simple you have to accept one the data is not being properly collected, two the math is wrong, or three the results are being altered to get the desired result. So until I see something off solid evidence the whole global crisis thing is a farce either to control people thru fear, or to grab free money offered up by fear mongers.
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Old 11-30-2018, 02:25 PM   #75
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62,000,000 Trump voters and the left hates them all.Now that is sad.
I mean, they're people who either support xenophobia and general bigotry, or people who're willing to stomach that bigotry if it gets them jobs or a tax cut. I see no reason at all why I should love those people.


How about because we are better than you on the left, and morally superior? ;-)
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