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Old 06-24-2017, 05:34 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by darthbob88
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Originally Posted by infantrystud

So, you can't really prove it... I guess that's progress? I mean, I can't prove that my boss didn't want to hire this one guy because he was morbidly obese. But, that's the reason. I could tell he was immediately turned off by the guy despite an good resume, education and experience and doing well in the interview. In fact, going off on a tangent here... I think there is more bias towards fat people than black people. Everyone is hyper sensitive to a black candidate. Whereas, nobody thinks too much of "that guy looks like a fat slob". Or, another case recently, a candidate with multiple piercings and tattoos. Anyway, gone are the days that people would say "We don't hire niggers". Progress.
Only inasmuch that things are less bad than they were, but the bigotry still exists.

WRT bias against obese or tattooed people, you can choose to be fat (glandular conditions notwithstanding), and you can choose to get inked up, and you can choose to be a Democrat, but you can't choose to be black. Judging people based on their choices is OK, judging people based on things outside their control is not.
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Like, the issue with your suggestions is that they'll help the kids trapped in the ghettos, but they don't do anything for the comfortable middle-class kids who are still going to get fucked over by racist hiring managers and police, they don't do anything for the Harvard grad whose only crime was putting "Lamar McGee" at the top of his resume.

I think it is more important to help the kids trapped in the ghetto for obvious reasons.
Oh, of course, but the issue is that it's only half the problem. If we do help a black kid out of the ghetto, and into Harvard, he's still going to run into the same problems as Lamar McGee, who's 30% less likely to get a callback simply because he put "Lamar" at the top of his resume instead of "Greg". As much help as the kids in the ghettos need, I'd rather remove the obstacles faced by the people who're already trying to get ahead before I encourage more people to try.
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You keep saying there are racist hiring managers and I just haven't seen it. Have you actually experienced it? Have you sit in on interviews? People are so worried about being called racist, I've seen the exact opposite. Every opportunity in the world given to black candidates that meet the qualifications. I watched a company hire a black woman who did not have the experience necessary for the position in which she applied. Not only did they hire her but they paid her more than her peers who did have the experience. When I asked what was up with that - I was literally told, "they wanted her because she's a black woman". No shit. So, not only do I question how much of this you claim goes on, I've seen the exact opposite happen.
Yes, thank you for your single example, now go back and read the studies I posted which drew from thousands of examples.

Really judging people on their choices is ok. When did that become a new standard for liberals. Judging somebody for tats or weight is no different than judging someone for religious garb. Relgious people choose to wear it in public, and we are not supposed to judge them based on it, so are you setting a double standard.

Also to keep you from having an out on that question change fat, to socially ackward. Just pick one of the many metal disorders that makes it hard for people to function in society. Their born that way with no choice. Now with that criteria go ahead and answer the question.
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Old 06-24-2017, 05:53 AM   #62
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Well, yes, because they're looking for different numbers than I am. I'm looking for the number of criminals among black people, they're looking for the number of black people among criminals.

And there you have it darth you answered your own question. You are looking for a number that meaningless in the real world. Your looking for a number that you can revolve your argument around. It doesn't really matter about the criminality within the black population as, the black population doesn't just deal with the black population. So you have to look at the reality of things. Likely hood when you meet a black person that they are a criminal is way greater than that of meeting a white person. Those are numbers that matter. Your number is meaningless and doesn't apply to the argument, other than trying to shame people.
That's what I'm looking for, dumbass. Given a randomly selected person from the black or white population, what is the probability that this person is a criminal? That's basic conditional probability, and is the number of black/white criminals divided by the number of black/white people, which comes out to around .5% and .1% respectively. Distinctly higher for black people, but still not enough for me to assume criminality just based on skin color.
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Old 06-24-2017, 06:06 AM   #63
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And there you have it darth you answered your own question. You are looking for a number that meaningless in the real world. Your looking for a number that you can revolve your argument around. It doesn't really matter about the criminality within the black population as, the black population doesn't just deal with the black population. So you have to look at the reality of things. Likely hood when you meet a black person that they are a criminal is way greater than that of meeting a white person. Those are numbers that matter. Your number is meaningless and doesn't apply to the argument, other than trying to shame people.
That's what I'm looking for, dumbass. Given a randomly selected person from the black or white population, what is the probability that this person is a criminal? That's basic conditional probability, and is the number of black/white criminals divided by the number of black/white people, which comes out to around .5% and .1% respectively. Distinctly higher for black people, but still not enough for me to assume criminality just based on skin color.

That may be the number your looking for, but you are in no way applying it that way. You just keep repeating the majority of black people are not criminals, so why are they treated in a manner that they are. Nobody cares if the majority are good people, what they care about is how the people they are in contact with will effect them.

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Old 06-24-2017, 06:20 AM   #64
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Or to put it more simply If you have a basket with a hundred apples and three are bad, and you have a basket of 1000 apples with three bad apples. Which basket of apples are you going to pull from in hopes of not grabbing the three bad apples.
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Old 06-24-2017, 06:21 AM   #65
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That's what I'm looking for, dumbass. Given a randomly selected person from the black or white population, what is the probability that this person is a criminal? That's basic conditional probability, and is the number of black/white criminals divided by the number of black/white people, which comes out to around .5% and .1% respectively. Distinctly higher for black people, but still not enough for me to assume criminality just based on skin color.
That may be the number your looking for, but you are in no way applying it that way. You just keep repeating the majority of black people are not criminals, so why are they treated in a manner that they are. Nobody cares if the majority are good people, what they care about is how the people they are in contact will effect them.
Right, and 99+% of the time, any given semi-randomly-selected member of the black population I come into contact with will be a law-abiding citizen. Now, to be fair, that will change if the people you come into contact with are a non-random sample, but then the relevant factor isn't that you're coming into contact with black people, it's that you're running into Bloods.
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Old 06-24-2017, 06:35 PM   #66
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99.9% of the people that hire people in America are not racists and hire the best candidate available. Yet, you focus on the alleged .1% that might be racist.

See how that works?


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That may be the number your looking for, but you are in no way applying it that way. You just keep repeating the majority of black people are not criminals, so why are they treated in a manner that they are. Nobody cares if the majority are good people, what they care about is how the people they are in contact will effect them.
Right, and 99+% of the time, any given semi-randomly-selected member of the black population I come into contact with will be a law-abiding citizen. Now, to be fair, that will change if the people you come into contact with are a non-random sample, but then the relevant factor isn't that you're coming into contact with black people, it's that you're running into Bloods.
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Old 06-24-2017, 09:14 PM   #67
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That may be the number your looking for, but you are in no way applying it that way. You just keep repeating the majority of black people are not criminals, so why are they treated in a manner that they are. Nobody cares if the majority are good people, what they care about is how the people they are in contact will effect them.
Right, and 99+% of the time, any given semi-randomly-selected member of the black population I come into contact with will be a law-abiding citizen. Now, to be fair, that will change if the people you come into contact with are a non-random sample, but then the relevant factor isn't that you're coming into contact with black people, it's that you're running into Bloods.

To bad your numbers are not reality. Reality is one in three black people will go to jail. That means meeting a criminal in a 1 in 3 chance. Your numbers are per year. That means 1% of the population becomes a criminal per year. So with a short life span of 60 years that makes 60% of the black community a criminal. Now given that some of the black people are incarcerated for their crimes that puts other studies showing that your chance of running into a black criminal at 1 in 10 pretty realistic.
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Old 06-25-2017, 12:20 AM   #68
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I am providing a citation for your claim. Honestly, when I saw you cite those stats, I had to look them up to be sure it was correct. No offense. Because even I was shocked it was that high.

That really destroy's Darthbob88's "meh, its not that big of a difference.." It is a big difference. So, now I boldly predict the next phase of the argument will focus on how racist the criminal justice system is to black people.

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Right, and 99+% of the time, any given semi-randomly-selected member of the black population I come into contact with will be a law-abiding citizen. Now, to be fair, that will change if the people you come into contact with are a non-random sample, but then the relevant factor isn't that you're coming into contact with black people, it's that you're running into Bloods.

To bad your numbers are not reality. Reality is one in three black people will go to jail. That means meeting a criminal in a 1 in 3 chance. Your numbers are per year. That means 1% of the population becomes a criminal per year. So with a short life span of 60 years that makes 60% of the black community a criminal. Now given that some of the black people are incarcerated for their crimes that puts other studies showing that your chance of running into a black criminal at 1 in 10 pretty realistic.
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Old 06-25-2017, 01:14 AM   #69
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I am providing a citation for your claim. Honestly, when I saw you cite those stats, I had to look them up to be sure it was correct. No offense. Because even I was shocked it was that high.

That really destroy's Darthbob88's "meh, its not that big of a difference.." It is a big difference. So, now I boldly predict the next phase of the argument will focus on how racist the criminal justice system is to black people.

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To bad your numbers are not reality. Reality is one in three black people will go to jail. That means meeting a criminal in a 1 in 3 chance. Your numbers are per year. That means 1% of the population becomes a criminal per year. So with a short life span of 60 years that makes 60% of the black community a criminal. Now given that some of the black people are incarcerated for their crimes that puts other studies showing that your chance of running into a black criminal at 1 in 10 pretty realistic.

No offense taken. The main reason I didn't link anything because I wanted to see darths retort to it. If he had an excuse for the stats I mentioned that means he knows of them and has chosen to ignore them. The other reason is I read thru proably thirty studies to find a theme of matching numbers. I don't believe any study until I can find a correlating theme across many studies.
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Old 06-25-2017, 02:22 AM   #70
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99.9% of the people that hire people in America are not racists and hire the best candidate available. Yet, you focus on the alleged .1% that might be racist.

See how that works?
I do. So, if you're going to insist that hiring managers aren't racist because only a very few of them are, you can't also insist that black people are criminal because a very few of them are.

Plus, the studies don't say anything like that and I don't recall if they give enough data on their sample sizes to draw any such conclusions. That said, given the size of the difference between black and white callback rates, I'm pretty sure the rate of racist hiring managers is well above 1 per thousand.

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I am providing a citation for your claim. Honestly, when I saw you cite those stats, I had to look them up to be sure it was correct. No offense. Because even I was shocked it was that high.

That really destroy's Darthbob88's "meh, its not that big of a difference.." It is a big difference. So, now I boldly predict the next phase of the argument will focus on how racist the criminal justice system is to black people.
Well, a little of that, but I'd really focus more on the fact that "sent to jail" includes the mandatory minimum for having/smoking marijuana, which I'd guess half the posters here like to indulge in. It's bad enough that saying somebody was "sent to jail" without any qualifiers is a meaningless statement IMO.
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Old 06-25-2017, 03:30 AM   #71
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Called it.

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I do. So, if you're going to insist that hiring managers aren't racist because only a very few of them are, you can't also insist that black people are criminal because a very few of them are.

Plus, the studies don't say anything like that and I don't recall if they give enough data on their sample sizes to draw any such conclusions. That said, given the size of the difference between black and white callback rates, I'm pretty sure the rate of racist hiring managers is well above 1 per thousand.

Quote:
I am providing a citation for your claim. Honestly, when I saw you cite those stats, I had to look them up to be sure it was correct. No offense. Because even I was shocked it was that high.

That really destroy's Darthbob88's "meh, its not that big of a difference.." It is a big difference. So, now I boldly predict the next phase of the argument will focus on how racist the criminal justice system is to black people.
Well, a little of that, but I'd really focus more on the fact that "sent to jail" includes the mandatory minimum for having/smoking marijuana, which I'd guess half the posters here like to indulge in. It's bad enough that saying somebody was "sent to jail" without any qualifiers is a meaningless statement IMO.
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Old 06-25-2017, 03:52 AM   #72
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Called it.
Not really. I only mentioned and linked that because I figured it should stay in the discussion. My main counterpoint to the significance of black people being more likely to spend time in jail is, as I said, the fact that a serious chunk of them are there simply because they were caught toking up.
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Old 06-25-2017, 05:16 AM   #73
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Called it.
Not really. I only mentioned and linked that because I figured it should stay in the discussion. My main counterpoint to the significance of black people being more likely to spend time in jail is, as I said, the fact that a serious chunk of them are there simply because they were caught toking up.

And here is where your logic falls apart. Your making reference to black people not getting called back for jobs. Then you try to minimize criminal history of black people by saying well they were proably just caught toking up. Well what is an employer going to look for since most jobs are drug free anymore, it automatically dimisses a whole ton of black people from qualifying from a job.

Why should that stay in the discussion, iy doesn't have to do with anything. You asked why as a majority were black people seen as criminals. It was explained to you with stats why that is. Has nothing to do with what is fair or not. Your resitance to accept reality around is really disturbing.
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