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Old 03-23-2017, 05:06 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
... The truth is that LTG Michael Flynn was, as they say, "unmasked" when his conversations with the Russians was "wiretapped" i.e. collected. That is against the law and someone high up in either the Obama administration or in the NSA leaked that. That's against the law. Flynn has protections as a USPER that were casually thrown out the door in the name of politics. All of this is true. ...
Why are you so sure that it was an Obama type that leaked? There was so much turmoil and fighting for position with the transition team that it could easily have been a Trumpster.
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Old 03-23-2017, 11:20 AM   #22
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Not really. The conversation happened before the election. Which means, the political types in the WH and other high levels that would have gotten this intelligence were from the Obama admin. In fact, was it not the acting AG Sally Yates that came out and said that Flynn might be subject to blackmail because what he said publicly is not what he said privately to the Russians? How would she had known that?

The leaker is most likely Sally Yates. An Obama holdover.



Quote:
Originally Posted by billxl883
Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
... The truth is that LTG Michael Flynn was, as they say, "unmasked" when his conversations with the Russians was "wiretapped" i.e. collected. That is against the law and someone high up in either the Obama administration or in the NSA leaked that. That's against the law. Flynn has protections as a USPER that were casually thrown out the door in the name of politics. All of this is true. ...
Why are you so sure that it was an Obama type that leaked? There was so much turmoil and fighting for position with the transition team that it could easily have been a Trumpster.
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Old 03-24-2017, 05:49 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
Not really. The conversation happened before the election. Which means, the political types in the WH and other high levels that would have gotten this intelligence were from the Obama admin. In fact, was it not the acting AG Sally Yates that came out and said that Flynn might be subject to blackmail because what he said publicly is not what he said privately to the Russians? How would she had known that?

The leaker is most likely Sally Yates. An Obama holdover.



Quote:
Originally Posted by billxl883
Why are you so sure that it was an Obama type that leaked? There was so much turmoil and fighting for position with the transition team that it could easily have been a Trumpster.
The conversation happened before the election, but the leak happened after the transition team started being briefed in. Your own link says that Yates warned the incoming administration, so they knew too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by your link
... James R. Clapper Jr. and John Brennan, President Obama’s directors of national intelligence and the CIA, reportedly shared Yates’s concerns and agreed with her decision to warn the Trump administration ...
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Old 03-25-2017, 02:24 PM   #24
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The point you don't seem to get is that you cannot collect on Flynn. Unless you have a FISA order to do so which requires an investigation.

Incidental collection of a USPER means they remain "masked" and identified only as USPER1, USPER2, etc.

The "unmasked" Flynn. And, it is likely the Obama administration abused raw intelligence for political gain.

But, the good news is that only a small amount of people got the raw intelligence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by billxl883
Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
Not really. The conversation happened before the election. Which means, the political types in the WH and other high levels that would have gotten this intelligence were from the Obama admin. In fact, was it not the acting AG Sally Yates that came out and said that Flynn might be subject to blackmail because what he said publicly is not what he said privately to the Russians? How would she had known that?

The leaker is most likely Sally Yates. An Obama holdover.



The conversation happened before the election, but the leak happened after the transition team started being briefed in. Your own link says that Yates warned the incoming administration, so they knew too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by your link
... James R. Clapper Jr. and John Brennan, President Obama’s directors of national intelligence and the CIA, reportedly shared Yates’s concerns and agreed with her decision to warn the Trump administration ...
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Old 03-26-2017, 06:23 AM   #25
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I understand how masking works. One of the reasons for unmasking a USPER is if the identity is necessary to understand the intelligence.

I suppose it depends on your definition of "collect" when you say you cannot collect on Flynn. If the target was Kislyak or the Turks and Flynn was on the other end of the conversation then Flynn becomes "incidental collection" and the collection is legal. If the target was Flynn himself then without a criminal investigation or FISA warrant it would have been illegal. Nunes has said the the Flynn intel was the result of "incidental collection".

Speaking of Nunes, I wouldn't put too much stock in whatever he says. Here's a guy whose story has changed several times this week. A guy who ran to the president because his people, maybe even the president himself, were mentioned in the intel. Who refuses to tell even members of his own committee where the report came from. Who still has not shown this intel to any other committee members. Who unilaterally cancelled a hearing scheduled for this coming week where Clapper, Brennan and Yates were scheduled to testify and that undoubtedly would have shed light on the source of Nunes' report. And here's the clincher - Nunes was on the transition team. Nunes has lost any credibility he may have had, even some republicans are now calling for him to either step aside or for a select committee to be set up.

The WSJ editorial you linked is behind a paywall, but here's something that sheds light on the legality of collecting on Flynn.
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Old 03-26-2017, 06:04 PM   #26
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From the article you cited:

Quote:
A caveat, of course, is that dissemination is only permitted to recipients who need that information in the performance of their official duties. The public disclosure of such information is a wholly separate issue, beyond the scope of this article.

LOL, why is it a wholly separate issue? It is illegal, period.

Flynn's communications can be unmasked under the condition the article states but it cannot be released anonymously to the media. And, we don't even know if the unmasking meets the criteria the article talks about.



Quote:
Originally Posted by billxl883
I understand how masking works. One of the reasons for unmasking a USPER is if the identity is necessary to understand the intelligence.

I suppose it depends on your definition of "collect" when you say you cannot collect on Flynn. If the target was Kislyak or the Turks and Flynn was on the other end of the conversation then Flynn becomes "incidental collection" and the collection is legal. If the target was Flynn himself then without a criminal investigation or FISA warrant it would have been illegal. Nunes has said the the Flynn intel was the result of "incidental collection".

Speaking of Nunes, I wouldn't put too much stock in whatever he says. Here's a guy whose story has changed several times this week. A guy who ran to the president because his people, maybe even the president himself, were mentioned in the intel. Who refuses to tell even members of his own committee where the report came from. Who still has not shown this intel to any other committee members. Who unilaterally cancelled a hearing scheduled for this coming week where Clapper, Brennan and Yates were scheduled to testify and that undoubtedly would have shed light on the source of Nunes' report. And here's the clincher - Nunes was on the transition team. Nunes has lost any credibility he may have had, even some republicans are now calling for him to either step aside or for a select committee to be set up.

The WSJ editorial you linked is behind a paywall, but here's something that sheds light on the legality of collecting on Flynn.
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Old 03-27-2017, 07:03 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
Flynn's communications can be unmasked under the condition the article states but it cannot be released anonymously to the media. And, we don't even know if the unmasking meets the criteria the article talks about.
Exactly, and your assertion that it is most likely Yates has no more validity than saying Trump himself leaked it (which really is a possibility). There was a leak of supposed intel to Nunes last week, just after a week of bad press for Trump. Could somebody in the White House have leaked it to deflect attention and try to get the news cycle on another topic? Could they have even made it up from whole cloth? Definitely possible.
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Old 03-27-2017, 12:00 PM   #28
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I doubt it. Trump has a bad week every week with the news cycle. As bad as Trump is with his tweets, the press is just as bad - or even worse - with their instant analysis and conclusions. It truly is a fascinating shit show to watch. After 8 years, now all of a sudden we have an inquisitive press. LOL

Back to Flynn... Why would Trump leak it himself? He could - and did - just tell Flynn to resign. And, again, this conversation(s) that Flynn had with the Russians were during the Obama administration. Which means, the "Obama" people were in key positions to be able to get the raw intelligence i.e. the Flynn transcripts.

I'm hearing more now the Ben Rhodes might be someone who leaked it. Either way, if you read, of all things - the NY Times - you have seen the evolution of the story.

This investigation - if it is ever done above board and comprehensively is likely to uncover some shady shit on all sides.

I'm curious to see what Nunes reveals this week, if anything. Just as you dont likely trust him, Schiff has a deer in the headlights look to him and he is a partisan fuck, too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by billxl883
Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
Flynn's communications can be unmasked under the condition the article states but it cannot be released anonymously to the media. And, we don't even know if the unmasking meets the criteria the article talks about.
Exactly, and your assertion that it is most likely Yates has no more validity than saying Trump himself leaked it (which really is a possibility). There was a leak of supposed intel to Nunes last week, just after a week of bad press for Trump. Could somebody in the White House have leaked it to deflect attention and try to get the news cycle on another topic? Could they have even made it up from whole cloth? Definitely possible.
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