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Old 02-28-2017, 01:15 PM   #1
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Default Boehner admits what most of us knew all along

There's no fucking chance of Republicans repealing Obamacare.

Quote:
"In the 25 years that I served in the United States Congress, Republicans never, ever, one time agreed on what a health care proposal should look like. Not once,” Boehner said. “And all this happy talk that went on in November and December and January about repeal, repeal, repeal—yeah, we'll do replace, replace—I started laughing, because if you pass repeal without replace, first, anything that happens is your fault. You broke it.”

And you idiots fell for it hook, line, and sinker.


Bonus: Trump admits he has no fucking idea what he's talking about
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Old 02-28-2017, 08:56 PM   #2
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You may be right about not repealing Obamacare.

At this point, there are no easy answers. Once you've squeezed the toothpaste out of the tube, its hard to put in back in. The "good" things about Obamacare were never going to go away: no lifetime max, no pre-existing conditions and letting kids ride until they are 26.

I think Obama deserves credit for those that want socialism. Obamacare did nothing to make healthcare cheaper for the vast majority of people. If you were in the above categories, sure, you love Obamacare. But, for the vast majority of us - it did nothing at all to make healthcare more affordable. I believe it was designed to "fail" so that the next logical step would be single payer government provided health care.

What the average person pays for healthcare insurance/bills each year is staggering. I don't see anything either party is offering as changing that to make it cheaper.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ShuGuy
There's no fucking chance of Republicans repealing Obamacare.

Quote:
"In the 25 years that I served in the United States Congress, Republicans never, ever, one time agreed on what a health care proposal should look like. Not once,” Boehner said. “And all this happy talk that went on in November and December and January about repeal, repeal, repeal—yeah, we'll do replace, replace—I started laughing, because if you pass repeal without replace, first, anything that happens is your fault. You broke it.”

And you idiots fell for it hook, line, and sinker.


Bonus: Trump admits he has no fucking idea what he's talking about
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Old 02-28-2017, 11:03 PM   #3
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
You may be right about not repealing Obamacare.

At this point, there are no easy answers. Once you've squeezed the toothpaste out of the tube, its hard to put in back in. The "good" things about Obamacare were never going to go away: no lifetime max, no pre-existing conditions and letting kids ride until they are 26.

I think Obama deserves credit for those that want socialism. Obamacare did nothing to make healthcare cheaper for the vast majority of people. If you were in the above categories, sure, you love Obamacare. But, for the vast majority of us - it did nothing at all to make healthcare more affordable. I believe it was designed to "fail" so that the next logical step would be single payer government provided health care.

What the average person pays for healthcare insurance/bills each year is staggering. I don't see anything either party is offering as changing that to make it cheaper.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ShuGuy

Are you somehow against the "good" things you mentioned?

Furthermore, Obamacare was the most capitalistic solution to universal healthcare. This does not make creating a public option (probably the only real way to reform it without going to single payer) somehow socialistic. And what exactly does "designed to fail" even mean? That sounds like a stupid person's impression of a smart person's opinion.
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Old 02-28-2017, 11:36 PM   #4
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Designed to fail means that it did nothing to lower the cost of healthcare for the vast majority of the country. And, just like I said - it was meant to be a way point to eventually having socialized medicine. They had to lie to get support for it. And, then there's the whole, "you can keep your doctor". So, either Obama lied or he had no idea what he was doing either. Maybe a mixture of both.

As for the "good" things in Obamacare... Am I against them? Not really. I'm in the middle ground on that. I do think 26 is a little too old to be carrying your children on your insurance. The one thing I think is the decent thing to do is to no have the pre-existing condition limitation. That was good to remove that because it hurt a lot of people that simply couldn't get health care coverage. So, basically, no, I'm not against them. And, apparently, neither are the Republicans.

You've got a lot of anger inside you. You can't seem to exchange ideas/posts without throwing insults. You should probably see a therapist or something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShuGuy
Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
You may be right about not repealing Obamacare.

At this point, there are no easy answers. Once you've squeezed the toothpaste out of the tube, its hard to put in back in. The "good" things about Obamacare were never going to go away: no lifetime max, no pre-existing conditions and letting kids ride until they are 26.

I think Obama deserves credit for those that want socialism. Obamacare did nothing to make healthcare cheaper for the vast majority of people. If you were in the above categories, sure, you love Obamacare. But, for the vast majority of us - it did nothing at all to make healthcare more affordable. I believe it was designed to "fail" so that the next logical step would be single payer government provided health care.

What the average person pays for healthcare insurance/bills each year is staggering. I don't see anything either party is offering as changing that to make it cheaper.




Are you somehow against the "good" things you mentioned?

Furthermore, Obamacare was the most capitalistic solution to universal healthcare. This does not make creating a public option (probably the only real way to reform it without going to single payer) somehow socialistic. And what exactly does "designed to fail" even mean? That sounds like a stupid person's impression of a smart person's opinion.
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Old 03-01-2017, 04:30 AM   #5
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Why is Romneycare considered a success and Obamacare considered a failure? Can anyone explain the major differences in the two plans that make one succeed and the other fail? I mean, except that one was enacted by a republican and the other by a democrat.

Maybe the republicans can just enact Romneycare nationwide and everyone will be happy. Democrats can get the uninsured millions covered and republicans can get their president's name on health care.
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Old 03-01-2017, 11:20 AM   #6
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It is largely an issue of scale. Massachusetts is one state of fifty. Each state has unique problems for its citizens. What might work in one state might not be the best option in another state. That's the short version answer to the question you ask.

The Boston Globe had a piece on 10 years of Romney Care.

A similar piece here.

I'm sure there are articles out there that will say its doing a fine job. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. But, either way that was for the people of Massachusetts to decide what to do in their state.

Quote:
Originally Posted by billxl883
Why is Romneycare considered a success and Obamacare considered a failure? Can anyone explain the major differences in the two plans that make one succeed and the other fail? I mean, except that one was enacted by a republican and the other by a democrat.

Maybe the republicans can just enact Romneycare nationwide and everyone will be happy. Democrats can get the uninsured millions covered and republicans can get their president's name on health care.
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Old 03-02-2017, 04:00 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
Designed to fail means that it did nothing to lower the cost of healthcare for the vast majority of the country. And, just like I said - it was meant to be a way point to eventually having socialized medicine. They had to lie to get support for it. And, then there's the whole, "you can keep your doctor". So, either Obama lied or he had no idea what he was doing either. Maybe a mixture of both.

As for the "good" things in Obamacare... Am I against them? Not really. I'm in the middle ground on that. I do think 26 is a little too old to be carrying your children on your insurance. The one thing I think is the decent thing to do is to no have the pre-existing condition limitation. That was good to remove that because it hurt a lot of people that simply couldn't get health care coverage. So, basically, no, I'm not against them. And, apparently, neither are the Republicans.

You've got a lot of anger inside you. You can't seem to exchange ideas/posts without throwing insults. You should probably see a therapist or something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShuGuy

Are you somehow against the "good" things you mentioned?

Furthermore, Obamacare was the most capitalistic solution to universal healthcare. This does not make creating a public option (probably the only real way to reform it without going to single payer) somehow socialistic. And what exactly does "designed to fail" even mean? That sounds like a stupid person's impression of a smart person's opinion.

This may shock you, since you're clearly not used to being challenged, but I'm not about to accept advice from a shitty internet source about my mental health.

Your point is essentially gibberish, because it assumes that the ACA is somehow socialism. Given that it's not only based off of Romneycare and the Heritage Foundation's plans for universal healthcare, this doesn't seem to be a defensivible position for conservatives. There really is no way besides increased, increased taxation to provide healthcare for every American for a lower cost. Really, the only way you can call it socialism is if you decide to abandon the actual definition of the word and replace it with "thing I don't like."

In fact, that's another point. You're trying to wield Gruber's words as a cudgel, because you don't like the result. The fact is that everyone understood that it was a tax to get healthcare. Maybe you really bought into Republican talking points, but I think most people got that if they didn't buy health insurance, they'd have to pay a "fine." Otherwise known as, "you're taxed to decrease a behavior."

And then let's get into that. Health insurance cost as a whole was increasing before ACA. It increased at a slower rate after ACA. The problem is, and the problem has always been, is that currently the cost of health insurance is more expensive than the tax to have it. As regressive a tax as it is, it's still way below the average cost of it. This is an argument for reform though, yet Republicans decided to argue about death panels and socialism.

Hm. Interesting. It's almost as if they were out-conservatived by Obama and they've got to rely purely on lies to obstruct or something. Hrm.

When Republicans argue for improving healthcare, as Trump did in Pivot 5.0 last night, they've got to answer how to provide healthcare for everyone at a cheaper cost.

The problem is that, as your idiotic statement has shown, eliminating bans on preexisting conditions is popular. As is insuring people to age 26. Did you ever wonder why that works? Helpful hint: the things you (begrudgingly) like about ACA only work because of the unpopular parts of it.

So now that Republicans have been out-conservatived, and now that they ostensibly hold control of a majority of government, they've actually got to provide a solution... that doesn't include single-payer, which would help with negotiation of healthcare costs. Or a public option, which would help move high-cost, high-risk citizens to the government care to spread cost amongst 350 million people.

Instead, they're going to argue about selling insurance across state lines, which is already perfectly legal. Or that they need to increase HSA's, which sounds good, until you realize they're just trying to find another way for dodge an estate tax...

Like, do you get why your opinion is so remarkably stupid yet? Do I need sock puppets? "Designed to fail" is really just another way to say "my philosophy is the losing one, but I don't have enough dignity to admit it." But hey, pick any hill you'd like to die on, I guess.

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Old 03-02-2017, 05:32 AM   #8
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Yes, I don't like the American people being lied to. And, they were lied to in several different ways. And, Prof. Gruber admitted it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShuGuy

In fact, that's another point. You're trying to wield Gruber's words as a cudgel, because you don't like the result. The fact is that everyone understood that it was a tax to get healthcare. Maybe you really bought into Republican talking points, but I think most people got that if they didn't buy health insurance, they'd have to pay a "fine." Otherwise known as, "you're taxed to decrease a behavior."
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Old 03-02-2017, 03:40 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
Yes, I don't like the American people being lied to. And, they were lied to in several different ways. And, Prof. Gruber admitted it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShuGuy

In fact, that's another point. You're trying to wield Gruber's words as a cudgel, because you don't like the result. The fact is that everyone understood that it was a tax to get healthcare. Maybe you really bought into Republican talking points, but I think most people got that if they didn't buy health insurance, they'd have to pay a "fine." Otherwise known as, "you're taxed to decrease a behavior."

Legal obsfucation =/= lie
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Old 03-02-2017, 08:01 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShuGuy
Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
Yes, I don't like the American people being lied to. And, they were lied to in several different ways. And, Prof. Gruber admitted it.


Legal obsfucation =/= lie

I take it you don't know what legal obsfucation means.
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Old 03-02-2017, 10:53 PM   #11
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Eh, leave him alone. Its the closest that he's gonna get to admitting they lied.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShuGuy

Legal obsfucation =/= lie

I take it you don't know what legal obsfucation means.
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Old 03-03-2017, 01:32 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by infantrystud
Eh, leave him alone. Its the closest that he's gonna get to admitting they lied.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 65dart

I take it you don't know what legal obsfucation means.

So your entire criticism, after someone finally called you out on your bullshit, is that you don't like the ACA because... politicians lie.

Yet you clearly have no problem with Republicans lying that they were going to repeal it. Or that they had an alternative plan. FFS, they've had nearly 7 years, and they still can't get their act together.

(And that's ignoring the Liar-in-Chief, who doesn't even try to dress up his bullshit)
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Old 03-03-2017, 02:21 AM   #13
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Don't you have some polls to check? LOL Still smarting from that thread, I see. But, it was wise of you to tap out of that one.

Unlike you, I'm not a sycophant.

I do have a problem with the GOP saying they were going to repeal/replace Obamacare but still can't see to come up with a plan. I don't think they should have claimed they could do it when they don't have a plan that will conclusively make healthcare cheaper.

I guess I'd prefer an empty promise to a straight up lie. You can keep your doctor... You can keep your health plan. This is not a tax. etc



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Originally Posted by ShuGuy
Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
Eh, leave him alone. Its the closest that he's gonna get to admitting they lied.


So your entire criticism, after someone finally called you out on your bullshit, is that you don't like the ACA because... politicians lie.

Yet you clearly have no problem with Republicans lying that they were going to repeal it. Or that they had an alternative plan. FFS, they've had nearly 7 years, and they still can't get their act together.

(And that's ignoring the Liar-in-Chief, who doesn't even try to dress up his bullshit)
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Old 03-03-2017, 01:24 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by infantrystud
Don't you have some polls to check? LOL Still smarting from that thread, I see. But, it was wise of you to tap out of that one.

Unlike you, I'm not a sycophant.

I do have a problem with the GOP saying they were going to repeal/replace Obamacare but still can't see to come up with a plan. I don't think they should have claimed they could do it when they don't have a plan that will conclusively make healthcare cheaper.

I guess I'd prefer an empty promise to a straight up lie. You can keep your doctor... You can keep your health plan. This is not a tax. etc



Quote:
Originally Posted by ShuGuy

So your entire criticism, after someone finally called you out on your bullshit, is that you don't like the ACA because... politicians lie.

Yet you clearly have no problem with Republicans lying that they were going to repeal it. Or that they had an alternative plan. FFS, they've had nearly 7 years, and they still can't get their act together.

(And that's ignoring the Liar-in-Chief, who doesn't even try to dress up his bullshit)

That's cute that when Republicans do it, it's an "empty promise," but when Democrats do it, it's a "flat out lie." Do you ever tire of being a hypocrite? And that's even ignoring the laughable sycophant line.
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Old 03-03-2017, 09:15 PM   #15
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The voice of the sycophant ^
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Old 03-03-2017, 09:28 PM   #16
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Legal obsfucation =/= lie

I take it you don't know what legal obsfucation means.

A fucking lie, right to your face, except you don't care, as long as his dick is in your mouth.

Fucking idiot.
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Old 03-04-2017, 12:49 PM   #17
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The voice of the sycophant ^

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Old 03-04-2017, 01:04 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65dart

I take it you don't know what legal obsfucation means.

A fucking lie, right to your face, except you don't care, as long as his dick is in your mouth.

Fucking idiot.

What was it when Republicans claimed that the ACA was going to have death panels? What was it when Republicans claimed that the ACA was socialism, despite it being a more capitalistic solution to universal healthcare than even Nixon's proposal?

What was it when, after 7 years of saying they needed Congress AND the presidency to repeal it, they still haven't done so? What was it when after 7 years of time, they still don't have a plan in place?

But hey, it's "your team," so you're willing to overlook all of their deception. How smart of you.
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Old 03-04-2017, 04:18 PM   #19
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You know how I can tell you're really butt hurt? You've started speaking in memes.

Now, go conduct a poll! LOL

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The voice of the sycophant ^

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Old 03-04-2017, 06:11 PM   #20
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A fucking lie, right to your face, except you don't care, as long as his dick is in your mouth.

Fucking idiot.

What was it when Republicans claimed that the ACA was going to have death panels? What was it when Republicans claimed that the ACA was socialism, despite it being a more capitalistic solution to universal healthcare than even Nixon's proposal?

What was it when, after 7 years of saying they needed Congress AND the presidency to repeal it, they still haven't done so? What was it when after 7 years of time, they still don't have a plan in place?

But hey, it's "your team," so you're willing to overlook all of their deception. How smart of you.

I have friends who pay 600 bucks a month with a 5K deductible. I also have a friend who can't get the discount because she makes 15 an hour, with 2 kids, and makes too much money.

You wanna tout all the liver transplants and shit like that, but what..those are 1 in a million? Oh but it saved my life and fuck you if you can't afford it or don't qualify.

You can keep your Doctor and plan

No, I won't cum in your mouth
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