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Old 07-07-2017, 11:19 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwh1960huck
on what do you base your opinions?
& just how long are you going to tolerate this mistaken state of affairs?

it seems clear to me that your position here is that as an Australian national you
know more regarding this Russia issue than the entire US intelligence community.

Im sure that practically any of the US intelligence agencies would be glad to have the
assistance of such a knowledgeable source such as yourself.

its great to have you troll this forum but it seems you have not
stepped up to let people in charge of this mess know the real truth.

dont be afraid, Im sure theres only a very small chance you will be asked about your
interest & how you came by such a wealth of information on the subject.

sure as fuck we desperately need that sarcasm font right about now
What opinions.
I haven't expressed any in this thread.
I have merely pointed out that the base of the Russian contention might be wobbly and asked on what the various agencies base their opinion.

This is not expressing an opinion. This is just making you reexamine your beliefs.
A painful thing to do, I know, which explains the abuse you throw in my general direction.
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Old 07-08-2017, 03:01 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASHSON
On what do they base their evidence?

Quote:
No agency of the US government has examined these computers. The only examination of the computers which has taken place, and the only investigation of the hacking allegation which has been carried out, has been the work of a private company – CrowdStrike – whose opinions the relevant US government agencies have simply accepted as true.

...

In this case what is even more troubling is that the DNC and John Podesta apparently specifically denied the relevant US investigative agency – the FBI – access to their computers.
I don't know specifically, neither do you. That information is classified. Apparently there is enough information from other sources that the agencies can state "with a high degree of confidence" that it happened. You're hanging your hat on one missing piece of evidence. If you found the gun that was used to kill somebody, the suspect's fingerprints were on the gun, the suspect had motive and opportunity, but the shell casing was never found - would you argue that the suspect is innocent?
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Old 07-08-2017, 03:12 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
Do you know exactly which agencies have looked into it?
I've seen FBI, NSA, CIA and the DNI. There may be more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
Do you find it troubling that the DNC wouldn't let the FBI look at their hacked server? I mean, don't you find that interesting at least a little?
No more troubling than if the RNC had balked at turning over their computers to the FBI.
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Old 07-08-2017, 05:26 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billxl883
I don't know specifically, neither do you. That information is classified. Apparently there is enough information from other sources that the agencies can state "with a high degree of confidence" that it happened. You're hanging your hat on one missing piece of evidence. If you found the gun that was used to kill somebody, the suspect's fingerprints were on the gun, the suspect had motive and opportunity, but the shell casing was never found - would you argue that the suspect is innocent?
I'm not hanging my hat on anything.
I'm just raising possibilities.

In the Russian thing everything stems from the initial claim. If that is false it tends to knock everything else off the base.

In the murder scenario I would want additional information.
Was the suspect caught with the gun?
Did the suspect own the gun?
Who profits?
What is the likelihood that someone wishes to frame the suspect?
Did the suspect have gun residue on his hands?
Means, motive, and opportunity is considered to be strong pointers but not proof.
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Old 07-09-2017, 02:22 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billxl883
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASHSON
On what do they base their evidence?

I don't know specifically, neither do you. That information is classified. Apparently there is enough information from other sources that the agencies can state "with a high degree of confidence" that it happened. You're hanging your hat on one missing piece of evidence. If you found the gun that was used to kill somebody, the suspect's fingerprints were on the gun, the suspect had motive and opportunity, but the shell casing was never found - would you argue that the suspect is innocent?

Yes I would. If the shell casing had someone else fingerprints on it would find the person to be innocent. So you shouldn't be so quick to dismiss one piece of evidence as it could change the whole out come of everything.
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Old 07-09-2017, 02:24 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASHSON
Quote:
Originally Posted by billxl883
I don't know specifically, neither do you. That information is classified. Apparently there is enough information from other sources that the agencies can state "with a high degree of confidence" that it happened. You're hanging your hat on one missing piece of evidence. If you found the gun that was used to kill somebody, the suspect's fingerprints were on the gun, the suspect had motive and opportunity, but the shell casing was never found - would you argue that the suspect is innocent?
I'm not hanging my hat on anything.
I'm just raising possibilities.

In the Russian thing everything stems from the initial claim. If that is false it tends to knock everything else off the base.

In the murder scenario I would want additional information.
Was the suspect caught with the gun?
Did the suspect own the gun?
Who profits?
What is the likelihood that someone wishes to frame the suspect?
Did the suspect have gun residue on his hands?
Means, motive, and opportunity is considered to be strong pointers but not proof.


Don't ask a liberal to get the whole story before jumping to conclusions. It would ruin their day if they had to believe the truth, instead of the conclusions they want to be true.
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Old 07-09-2017, 06:08 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65dart
Yes I would. If the shell casing had someone else fingerprints on it would find the person to be innocent. So you shouldn't be so quick to dismiss one piece of evidence as it could change the whole out come of everything.
So you've got means, motive, opportunity, fingerprints on the murder weapon, and because of one tiny piece missing you couldn't convict. What if the accused were a liberal? I know you'd convict in that case.

I think you need written instructions on how to cross the street.
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Old 07-09-2017, 06:16 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASHSON
In the Russian thing everything stems from the initial claim. If that is false it tends to knock everything else off the base.
First, it hasn't yet shown to be false. At this point it's unproven one way or the other.

But more importantly, if the initial allegation is not provable (or even if it is false) that DOESN'T mean that related or followup allegations are false. Witness the Clinton Whitewater scandal. There was no truth to the Whitewater allegations but they led to others that eventually led to his impeachment.
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Old 07-09-2017, 07:19 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by billxl883
First, it hasn't yet shown to be false. At this point it's unproven one way or the other.

But more importantly, if the initial allegation is not provable (or even if it is false) that DOESN'T mean that related or followup allegations are false. Witness the Clinton Whitewater scandal. There was no truth to the Whitewater allegations but they led to others that eventually led to his impeachment.
So you're saying that guilt or innocence over the Russian thing doesn't matter because he's guilty of something? You don't know what, but something, so hang him high.
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Old 07-09-2017, 07:23 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by billxl883
So you've got means, motive, opportunity, fingerprints on the murder weapon, and because of one tiny piece missing you couldn't convict. What if the accused were a liberal? I know you'd convict in that case.

I think you need written instructions on how to cross the street.
A high indication of guilt, I admit, and probably rightly so.
But why is the shell case missing?
Who removed it and why?
Loose ends make investigators uncomfortable as they have a way of coming back and stuffing up a case.
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Old 07-09-2017, 08:41 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by billxl883
Quote:
Originally Posted by 65dart
Yes I would. If the shell casing had someone else fingerprints on it would find the person to be innocent. So you shouldn't be so quick to dismiss one piece of evidence as it could change the whole out come of everything.
So you've got means, motive, opportunity, fingerprints on the murder weapon, and because of one tiny piece missing you couldn't convict. What if the accused were a liberal? I know you'd convict in that case.

I think you need written instructions on how to cross the street.

Not sure what the hell I need instructions to cross the street comments is supposed to mean, guess you couldn't manage one civil exchange so you had to make a sencless insult.

But no even a liberal I wouldn't convict. You call it a tiny piece of evidence, I would call it a hinge piece. And its funny you mention Clinton. evidence was supposedly hidden and liberals were like look at that not guilty. But boy comes to the other side lets hang em we got close enough to proof, don't worry about the rest of the evidence.
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Old 07-09-2017, 08:46 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billxl883
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASHSON
In the Russian thing everything stems from the initial claim. If that is false it tends to knock everything else off the base.
First, it hasn't yet shown to be false. At this point it's unproven one way or the other.

But more importantly, if the initial allegation is not provable (or even if it is false) that DOESN'T mean that related or followup allegations are false. Witness the Clinton Whitewater scandal. There was no truth to the Whitewater allegations but they led to others that eventually led to his impeachment.

Your just so convinced he had to do something wrong, you can't even see how illogical your being. Gee false allegation proven wrong, so the other allegations made off the false one, makes them all false. So until their is all the evidence gathered to say other wise its all false because it was all based on a lie.
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Old 07-09-2017, 12:47 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASHSON
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwh1960huck
on what do you base your opinions?
& just how long are you going to tolerate this mistaken state of affairs?

it seems clear to me that your position here is that as an Australian national you
know more regarding this Russia issue than the entire US intelligence community.

Im sure that practically any of the US intelligence agencies would be glad to have the
assistance of such a knowledgeable source such as yourself.

its great to have you troll this forum but it seems you have not
stepped up to let people in charge of this mess know the real truth.

dont be afraid, Im sure theres only a very small chance you will be asked about your
interest & how you came by such a wealth of information on the subject.

sure as fuck we desperately need that sarcasm font right about now
What opinions.
I haven't expressed any in this thread.
I have merely pointed out that the base of the Russian contention might be wobbly and asked on what the various agencies base their opinion.

This is not expressing an opinion. This is just making you reexamine your beliefs.
A painful thing to do, I know, which explains the abuse you throw in my general direction.
...that your posting style is easily adopted
abuse? what abuse?
do you mean to say you are not an Australian national who has posted here as
a definitive authority on this Russian election tampering issue?

do you really want to go on record that your every post in MD is
an undisputed fact and not merely your opinion?
...perhaps you might not be so prone to such errors if you were more
familiar with some basic aspects of reality. Donald Trump, for example

it literally cannot have escaped your attention that he is wildly unpopular worldwide.
so that it should come as no surprise your pro Trump agenda does draw its share of criticism
do feel free to cry about that or label any future disagreement as abuse
I will at least suggest you not make yourself such an easy target in future posts.

at any given moment I may avail myself of the opportunity you do so often (and so openly) provide.
does it sound as if you are causing me to reexamine my beliefs?
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Old 07-09-2017, 11:20 PM   #34
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it literally cannot have escaped your attention that he is wildly unpopular worldwide.
Maybe you have missed seeing the signs.
Trump may be wildly unpopular worldwide among the left.
He is also wildly popular among conservatives and those who want to see the US in a leading role in the world rather than acting like a cringing dog under Obama.

You seem to forget that he's the elected President of the United States which means that a lot of American people also like him.

You tend to equate the vocal minority with the majority view.
It's not. It's the noisy view, supported loudly by left leaning media such as CNN and the Australian ABC.
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Old 07-10-2017, 01:03 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASHSON
Quote:
Originally Posted by billxl883
First, it hasn't yet shown to be false. At this point it's unproven one way or the other.

But more importantly, if the initial allegation is not provable (or even if it is false) that DOESN'T mean that related or followup allegations are false. Witness the Clinton Whitewater scandal. There was no truth to the Whitewater allegations but they led to others that eventually led to his impeachment.
So you're saying that guilt or innocence over the Russian thing doesn't matter because he's guilty of something? You don't know what, but something, so hang him high.
I said no such thing, quit making up crap. Where did I say he was guilty of anything?

I'm just pointing out, by using a recent real case, that your attempt to shut down any investigations because we don't have any proof YET is premature.
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Old 07-10-2017, 01:08 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by billxl883
So you've got means, motive, opportunity, fingerprints on the murder weapon, and because of one tiny piece missing you couldn't convict. What if the accused were a liberal? I know you'd convict in that case.

I think you need written instructions on how to cross the street.
A high indication of guilt, I admit, and probably rightly so.
But why is the shell case missing?
Who removed it and why?
Loose ends make investigators uncomfortable as they have a way of coming back and stuffing up a case.
You're missing the whole point. If there are many, many, many pieces of evidence that point to guilt but there is once piece that you would like to have but don't, do you call the guy innocent? Even if the lack of that evidence implies neither innocence nor guilt.
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Old 07-10-2017, 01:12 AM   #37
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But no even a liberal I wouldn't convict.
Bullshit. You've convicted Hillary of many more crimes (in your mind) on much less evidence. The least you could do is be honest and admit it.
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Old 07-10-2017, 01:49 AM   #38
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But no even a liberal I wouldn't convict.
Bullshit. You've convicted Hillary of many more crimes (in your mind) on much less evidence. The least you could do is be honest and admit it.

Really bill like what. You mean like where they found her of wrong doing but because of the way the law is set up they couldn't press charges. Or mabey where I have said her foundation practices are questionable and she should proably be shut down, but legaly she is still within in her rights.

So really what have I convicted her of with out all the evidence being present. I would love to hear this. Your convinced in your head that I would convict her, but reality is I'm pretty neutral based till the whole story is out.
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Old 07-10-2017, 01:58 AM   #39
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So you're saying that guilt or innocence over the Russian thing doesn't matter because he's guilty of something? You don't know what, but something, so hang him high.
I said no such thing, quit making up crap. Where did I say he was guilty of anything?

I'm just pointing out, by using a recent real case, that your attempt to shut down any investigations because we don't have any proof YET is premature.

You have implied that he was guilty simply because you think all the evidence is against him, so you don't care if one small key piece of evidence is missing.

Also using your example here is what your basing your current claims on. You have all the evidence of a murder, but it turns the guy everyone thought was dead turns out to be alive, so then your saying well there is a gun, it has his finger prints on it, it has been shot, so he must of killed someone, so we need to keep digging to find out who he murdered. When you put it that way it makes the argument your trying to form sound a little silly.
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Old 07-10-2017, 02:58 AM   #40
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You're missing the whole point. If there are many, many, many pieces of evidence that point to guilt but there is once piece that you would like to have but don't, do you call the guy innocent? Even if the lack of that evidence implies neither innocence nor guilt.
You're missing the point.
With the Russian thing they have no evidence.
They are running around trying to find something to show a crime has been committed.
Normally you have the crime, look for evidence, charge the suspect.
With Russia and Trump we have the suspect, they are still looking for the evidence, and when they find it they might find a crime.

Does the term witch-hunt mean anything to you?
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