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Old 07-14-2017, 12:36 PM   #41
ShuGuy
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Originally Posted by 65dart
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Originally Posted by ShuGuy
It's sad that you don't seem to understand what you're arguing about then, because everything you're blathering about is relating to anonymity, not free speech.



Literally could not have been more irrelevant to the point at hand if you tried. No one has been arguing that the State has a right to crucify anyone for their beliefs. Saying that people don't have a right to treat a racist, well, like a racist is a suppression of free speech is, however. I can't tell if you're being deliberately obtuse at this point.

Quote:
I also haven't argued for any "right to be anonymous in a public space".

This is literally all you are trying to argue by saying that journalism is bad because you believe that "the principle of free speech" involves being anonymous.

Quote:
But if a person is trying to be anonymous in a public space, outing that person is not a legitimate response to what that person has said. For example if someone wants to walk around covered head to toe like a ninja carrying a megaphone sounding off against... whatever, publicly identifying or exposing that person is not a legitimate action.

Define legitimate. Oh wait, you can't, because we're talking about "principles" that you make up on the fly.

Quote:
The only legitimate reason to publicly identify such a person would be if there is probable cause to believe they committed a crime, and that person is then arrested on that probable cause.

That's why we're talking about actions taken by the State, right? OH WAIT. I'm not supposed to mention that because that's not "da principalz."

Quote:
I mean would you deem it legitimate for someone to write a letter to the newspaper that says "The guy walking around with the megaphone yesterday? I work with him. His name is [first and last name] and he works for [employer]"?

Yes, because that's a legitimate (probably the first time that word has been used correctly in the past 2 posts) expression of free speech. I can write whatever I'd like.

Quote:
It's why de-anonymizing is a form of doxxing. Unmasking you from behind your username and avatar on this forum or elsewhere fall under that. I don't know who you are. And attempting to find out who you are merely because of what you've been writing here would not be a legitimate response to it.

Are you getting paid per poor usage of legitimate at this point?

Quote:
And you have an expectation of privacy that, if violated, I'm sure you'd be sounding off BIG TIME. You expect that the forum moderators aren't going to publicly post identifying information about you -- such as your e-mail, the IP address(es) from which the account has been accessed, etc. Just as you'd also likely start using the various reporting features to alert the forum staff should anyone identify you and post your personally-identifying information to this forum merely for not liking what you're saying here.

Ding ding ding! Did you finally stumble upon the answer here kiddo? That "expectation" isn't the same as "right"? That private information hidden behind private logins is vastly different than public information posted on a public website?

No, I don't have that much hope for you.

Quote:
The only difference between that and HanAssholeSolo is he wasn't outed on a subreddit, but through CNN. And CNN made the mistake of publicly posting they'd identified him. The journalist could've abstained from writing about the person entirely. But they chose to not. Instead they went one step beyond too far by saying they reserve the right to publicly post his identifying information.

Which, unless there was illegal activity involved, they have every right to do so. A point that you keep trying to dance around by shouting "principle!!!" as shrilly as possible.

Quote:
Now sure a person who publicly posts of their own free will through their own account "Hi my name is [name] and I live at [address] in [wherever, somewhere]" cannot then roll that back and demand their privacy be respected. With the possible exception of that person realizing their stupidity and deleting the post. But that isn't what happened with HanAssholeSolo. They navigated through all of his posts and his profile and pieced together enough of the puzzle to identify him.

Same with how you might theoretically be identified. Whether here or elsewhere. Same with me.

Do you understand yet?

I understand that you continue to have no idea what free speech means, that you continue to hide behind a magical, continually transforming thing you call "principle of free speech," and now I understand that you have a hazy grasp on the word legitimate. Not sure what else you're trying to say at this point.

Hey shu remember when all the liberals were running around in masks and destroying stuff and calling it a protest. Then when the right said they were cowards, if they were truly for their cause they would show their face. Then all the libs came to their defense that they should be able to protest with anonymity, because they have lives out side the protest. Saying it was their right under free speech. Do you recall any of that. Now your saying none of what the liberals said about free speech isn't true, and anonymity has nothing to do with free speech.

Flip flop much.

In order to argue that I'm a flip flop, you need to show me where I've changed a stance. When you can bring that up, then you've got the right to call me a flip flop.

Otherwise, you're wrong and you should feel bad. I'm not the spokesman for liberalism, and I honestly don't have any idea what so-called argument on a cable news show that you're even talking about. There's a reason people ignore a lot of your posts, you know.
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Old 07-14-2017, 12:45 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by ShuGuy
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Originally Posted by SilentBob
Quote:
Originally Posted by brandishwar
And you obviously didn't read what I wrote. I didn't say there was any violation of intellectual property. I said that DMCA abuse used as an early way of trying to de-anonymize content creators. Because YouTube's copyright reporting system required the provision of personal information to counter a DMCA claim against a video. And that personal information was provided to the person who filed the claim. Ipso facto, de-anonymization through DMCA abuse.

And I understand the First Amendment quite well, too. Again, you didn't see where I said that this is about more than the First Amendment. The principle of free speech, not just the right to it. Learn to fucking read already instead of just skimming over something merely because you looked at the username and thought "not this guy again..."



So the President isn't allowed to enjoy and share a little satire here and there? The fact CNN took it personally and tracked down who made it is the real issue here. You're just too focused on the fact that Trump shared it that you're missing this.

(Emphasis mine)

I was wondering when you'd try to bring that up. "I don't want a limit on free speech". "Muh Freeze Peach!!!" Fuck you. You don't agree with the principle of free speech and are all for seeing people deplatformed and de-anonymized over speech you disagree with, regardless of how much you try to say the opposite.

The thing about shuguy is that he is not very smart, he doesn't research anything and just spews verbal diarrhea. If he doesn't agree with the truth he attacks the source and when proven wrong yet again he then runs away with his tail between his legs

Still obsessed with me, huh? I'm slightly flattered, but mostly creeped out. Probably the title of a book about your dating life, but if you really want to know why I didn't respond to you, it's because I already showed I was right. You went off on some bullshit argument about how what I said was construed as bullying, and the facts support that Obama signed the largest (at the time) military aid deal in history which you tried to belittle. If you want someone to keep arguing with you long past the point of no return, holler at dart or find some friends in summer school.
Of course you missed(or ignored because you looked like such a moron) the point of that post, you in your infinite wisdom called my source dubious, which of course was because you were unaware of it.
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The Jewish Virtual Library has been cited by CNN,[14] New York Times,[15] BBC,[16] CBS News,[17] Fox News,[18] The Los Angeles Times,[19] USA Today,[20] Bloomberg,[21] among others. It is listed as reference by academic libraries at Pennsylvania State University,[22] Michigan State University,[9] University of Washington,[23] King's College, London,[24] and the University of Delaware.
I would bet all the money in the world that no one on this planet (other than you) is obsessed with you, you desperately need psychiatric help, please get it
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Old 07-14-2017, 12:50 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by SilentBob
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Originally Posted by ShuGuy
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentBob

The thing about shuguy is that he is not very smart, he doesn't research anything and just spews verbal diarrhea. If he doesn't agree with the truth he attacks the source and when proven wrong yet again he then runs away with his tail between his legs

Still obsessed with me, huh? I'm slightly flattered, but mostly creeped out. Probably the title of a book about your dating life, but if you really want to know why I didn't respond to you, it's because I already showed I was right. You went off on some bullshit argument about how what I said was construed as bullying, and the facts support that Obama signed the largest (at the time) military aid deal in history which you tried to belittle. If you want someone to keep arguing with you long past the point of no return, holler at dart or find some friends in summer school.
Of course you missed(or ignored because you looked like such a moron) the point of that post, you in your infinite wisdom called my source dubious, which of course was because you were unaware of it.
Quote:
The Jewish Virtual Library has been cited by CNN,[14] New York Times,[15] BBC,[16] CBS News,[17] Fox News,[18] The Los Angeles Times,[19] USA Today,[20] Bloomberg,[21] among others. It is listed as reference by academic libraries at Pennsylvania State University,[22] Michigan State University,[9] University of Washington,[23] King's College, London,[24] and the University of Delaware.
I would bet all the money in the world that no one on this planet (other than you) is obsessed with you, you desperately need psychiatric help, please get it

Polls literally don't change that the size and scope of deals were made and that you were trying to put words into my mouth. Have a good day at summer school, and try not to daydream about me.

Last edited by ShuGuy : 07-14-2017 at 12:54 PM.
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Old 07-14-2017, 01:33 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShuGuy
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Originally Posted by SilentBob
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShuGuy

Still obsessed with me, huh? I'm slightly flattered, but mostly creeped out. Probably the title of a book about your dating life, but if you really want to know why I didn't respond to you, it's because I already showed I was right. You went off on some bullshit argument about how what I said was construed as bullying, and the facts support that Obama signed the largest (at the time) military aid deal in history which you tried to belittle. If you want someone to keep arguing with you long past the point of no return, holler at dart or find some friends in summer school.
Of course you missed(or ignored because you looked like such a moron) the point of that post, you in your infinite wisdom called my source dubious, which of course was because you were unaware of it.
Quote:
The Jewish Virtual Library has been cited by CNN,[14] New York Times,[15] BBC,[16] CBS News,[17] Fox News,[18] The Los Angeles Times,[19] USA Today,[20] Bloomberg,[21] among others. It is listed as reference by academic libraries at Pennsylvania State University,[22] Michigan State University,[9] University of Washington,[23] King's College, London,[24] and the University of Delaware.
I would bet all the money in the world that no one on this planet (other than you) is obsessed with you, you desperately need psychiatric help, please get it

Polls literally don't change that the size and scope of deals were made and that you were trying to put words into my mouth. Have a good day at summer school, and try not to daydream about me.

guess what, I never said the deal [he extended] wasn't the biggest, nor did I say whoever extends it next will have made the biggest deal. You seem so proud that obama currently has that honor, which he probably only did early (seeing as there were 2 years left) to try to not look so unsympathetic to Israel. I showed the polls pinned obama as the worst US president for Israel, funny Bill Clinton was pinned as best, this biggest deal ever apparently caused him to be dead last in the poll.
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Old 07-15-2017, 02:14 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by 65dart
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Originally Posted by ShuGuy
It's sad that you don't seem to understand what you're arguing about then, because everything you're blathering about is relating to anonymity, not free speech.



Literally could not have been more irrelevant to the point at hand if you tried. No one has been arguing that the State has a right to crucify anyone for their beliefs. Saying that people don't have a right to treat a racist, well, like a racist is a suppression of free speech is, however. I can't tell if you're being deliberately obtuse at this point.



This is literally all you are trying to argue by saying that journalism is bad because you believe that "the principle of free speech" involves being anonymous.

Quote:
But if a person is trying to be anonymous in a public space, outing that person is not a legitimate response to what that person has said. For example if someone wants to walk around covered head to toe like a ninja carrying a megaphone sounding off against... whatever, publicly identifying or exposing that person is not a legitimate action.

Define legitimate. Oh wait, you can't, because we're talking about "principles" that you make up on the fly.

Quote:
The only legitimate reason to publicly identify such a person would be if there is probable cause to believe they committed a crime, and that person is then arrested on that probable cause.

That's why we're talking about actions taken by the State, right? OH WAIT. I'm not supposed to mention that because that's not "da principalz."

Quote:
I mean would you deem it legitimate for someone to write a letter to the newspaper that says "The guy walking around with the megaphone yesterday? I work with him. His name is [first and last name] and he works for [employer]"?

Yes, because that's a legitimate (probably the first time that word has been used correctly in the past 2 posts) expression of free speech. I can write whatever I'd like.

Quote:
It's why de-anonymizing is a form of doxxing. Unmasking you from behind your username and avatar on this forum or elsewhere fall under that. I don't know who you are. And attempting to find out who you are merely because of what you've been writing here would not be a legitimate response to it.

Are you getting paid per poor usage of legitimate at this point?

Quote:
And you have an expectation of privacy that, if violated, I'm sure you'd be sounding off BIG TIME. You expect that the forum moderators aren't going to publicly post identifying information about you -- such as your e-mail, the IP address(es) from which the account has been accessed, etc. Just as you'd also likely start using the various reporting features to alert the forum staff should anyone identify you and post your personally-identifying information to this forum merely for not liking what you're saying here.

Ding ding ding! Did you finally stumble upon the answer here kiddo? That "expectation" isn't the same as "right"? That private information hidden behind private logins is vastly different than public information posted on a public website?

No, I don't have that much hope for you.

Quote:
The only difference between that and HanAssholeSolo is he wasn't outed on a subreddit, but through CNN. And CNN made the mistake of publicly posting they'd identified him. The journalist could've abstained from writing about the person entirely. But they chose to not. Instead they went one step beyond too far by saying they reserve the right to publicly post his identifying information.

Which, unless there was illegal activity involved, they have every right to do so. A point that you keep trying to dance around by shouting "principle!!!" as shrilly as possible.

Quote:
Now sure a person who publicly posts of their own free will through their own account "Hi my name is [name] and I live at [address] in [wherever, somewhere]" cannot then roll that back and demand their privacy be respected. With the possible exception of that person realizing their stupidity and deleting the post. But that isn't what happened with HanAssholeSolo. They navigated through all of his posts and his profile and pieced together enough of the puzzle to identify him.

Same with how you might theoretically be identified. Whether here or elsewhere. Same with me.

Do you understand yet?

I understand that you continue to have no idea what free speech means, that you continue to hide behind a magical, continually transforming thing you call "principle of free speech," and now I understand that you have a hazy grasp on the word legitimate. Not sure what else you're trying to say at this point.

Hey shu remember when all the liberals were running around in masks and destroying stuff and calling it a protest. Then when the right said they were cowards, if they were truly for their cause they would show their face. Then all the libs came to their defense that they should be able to protest with anonymity, because they have lives out side the protest. Saying it was their right under free speech. Do you recall any of that. Now your saying none of what the liberals said about free speech isn't true, and anonymity has nothing to do with free speech.

Flip flop much.

In order to argue that I'm a flip flop, you need to show me where I've changed a stance. When you can bring that up, then you've got the right to call me a flip flop.

Otherwise, you're wrong and you should feel bad. I'm not the spokesman for liberalism, and I honestly don't have any idea what so-called argument on a cable news show that you're even talking about. There's a reason people ignore a lot of your posts, you know.


Wow really, you are the poster child for liberals, don't even try to deny it.

Secondly what did you get lost, who said anything about cable news. Oh I get it you lost so now you will just say random shit to defelct, and not post any actual content because you can't win.

By the way it's funny you think my post are ignored. Hell I got my own thread you liberals are so obsessed with me. I often get mention in conversations I'm not even involved in. So you can pretend that you ignore but the truth is I drive you liberals so nuts you can't stop talking about me. So once again you fail.

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Old 07-15-2017, 03:02 AM   #46
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Click your heels three times, Dorothy. #gay #winning #maybenextweeksparky

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Shuguy #fail #wrong #notwinning

Having a rough go of it this week. Good news is it is the end of the week. There's always next week, Champ. Keep going to plate and taking cuts at the ball. Keep trying really hard.

Some helpful advice - maybe not try so hard to be funny. It likely makes you appear dumber than you might actually be. Although, that's debatable.

Lol k

Says the grown man using hashtags who has a pull string approach to arguments. Not really coming from a position of strength there, Triglet.
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Old 07-16-2017, 01:32 AM   #47
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It's sad that you don't seem to understand what you're arguing about then, because everything you're blathering about is relating to anonymity, not free speech.

I know perfectly well what I'm arguing. You're the one misrepresenting it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShuGuy
Literally could not have been more irrelevant to the point at hand if you tried. No one has been arguing that the State has a right to crucify anyone for their beliefs. Saying that people don't have a right to treat a racist, well, like a racist is a suppression of free speech is, however. I can't tell if you're being deliberately obtuse at this point.

Snyder v. Phelps didn't involve the State. It was a civil lawsuit between two private parties: the family of a deceased, gay American military serviceman killed in Iraq and the Westboro Baptist Church.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShuGuy
This is literally all you are trying to argue by saying that journalism is bad because you believe that "the principle of free speech" involves being anonymous.

I said merely that anonymity is an option, not a requirement. But that if someone chooses to be anonymous, writing behind a pseudonym or speaking behind a mask, then de-masking or de-anonymizing that person is not a legitimate response to their speech.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShuGuy
Define legitimate. Oh wait, you can't, because we're talking about "principles" that you make up on the fly.

The principle of free speech predates the First Amendment. By millennia. Without the principle, there'd be nothing on which to base the right and its protection by the Constitution and the jurisprudence of the Supreme Court in the United States.

But sure, let's define "legitimate". "In accordance to the laws of reasoning; logically inferable; logical." And "not spurious or unjustified." Synonyms: reasonable, appropriate, consistent, fair, justifiable.

Now, would de-anonymizing someone choosing to be anonymous -- to the best of their ability -- fall under any of that with regard to a legitimate response to someone's speech? Should it be reasonable for someone espousing their views, wherever they may choose to do so, to expect their contact information posted for all to see, or the threat thereof made? I'd more call that spurious and quite unjustified.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShuGuy
Yes, because that's a legitimate (probably the first time that word has been used correctly in the past 2 posts) expression of free speech. I can write whatever I'd like.

No, actually it isn't, going on the definition of legitimate given above. Legitimate doesn't necessarily mean "legal". An action can be legal without being legitimate. For example, locking someone in jail for two years for possession of marijuana is perfectly legal under the current criminal code. Is that legitimate? Is that reasonable? I think many would argue it is far from.

Whether the actions CNN took are legal no one is outright disputing, up to the point where CNN threatened to post his information if he wavered. The backlash against CNN wasn't because they found him. It's because they threatened to out him in response to a meme.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShuGuy
Ding ding ding! Did you finally stumble upon the answer here kiddo? That "expectation" isn't the same as "right"? That private information hidden behind private logins is vastly different than public information posted on a public website?

And I never said it was the same. I tend to be rather particular about the terms I choose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShuGuy
Quote:
The only difference between that and HanAssholeSolo is he wasn't outed on a subreddit, but through CNN. And CNN made the mistake of publicly posting they'd identified him. The journalist could've abstained from writing about the person entirely. But they chose to not. Instead they went one step beyond too far by saying they reserve the right to publicly post his identifying information.

Which, unless there was illegal activity involved, they have every right to do so. A point that you keep trying to dance around by shouting "principle!!!" as shrilly as possible.

Does the word "coercion" ring a bell? Something that's illegal in most, if not all States. You know, the fact CNN said they reserved the right to publicly identify him if he deviated from whatever he managed to negotiate with CNN.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShuGuy
I understand that you continue to have no idea what free speech means, that you continue to hide behind a magical, continually transforming thing you call "principle of free speech," and now I understand that you have a hazy grasp on the word legitimate. Not sure what else you're trying to say at this point.

And you don't understand.
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Old 07-22-2017, 07:05 PM   #48
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In other news CNN has obtained footage of a bear shitting in the woods.
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