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Old 06-16-2017, 01:28 PM   #41
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Their name was unmasked and attributed to a conversation that was collected via intelligence sources aka COMINT.

Tell me again how classified information was not leaked. It was. You should know this.

And, I've not even went into the sources/methods that may have been exposed by leaking this stuff.

I believe you when you say were in the USAF and did intelligence work. I'm not going to question your service. But, I do wonder if you're so old you don't understand these things anymore or you did something so low level in the USAF decades ago that you didn't deal with stuff like this.

Either way, because of sources and methods of collection. Most of the SIGINT and COMINT is highly classified. You can't just leak it to the press - as was done. I'm a little stunned that you cannot concede that point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by billxl883
Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
So, you are doubling down that leaking TS/SCI material is not a crime? Well, I guess your "logic" makes sense. You defended the Hillary email situation.
....
What you so conveniently ignore is that classified information was not leaked. The fact that names get unmasked is not classified. Your partisanship requires you to try to make something illegal out of everything that is done by Democrats, I get that, you're a hack.

You're getting as bad as daft with making up things I said. I specifically said COMINT was not leaked. Yet you claim I'm "doubling down" on it not being a crime. Get it through your head, leaking classified information is a crime but this was not classified information.
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Old 06-17-2017, 05:53 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
Their name was unmasked and attributed to a conversation that was collected via intelligence sources aka COMINT.
Sorry, but the fact that the names were unmasked is still not classified. The conversations are classified, the methods are classified. But unmasking is something that is known and done often. Procedures for the unmasking were followed. Your guys got caught with their hand in the cookie jar and you'll do anything to distract from that, but you're claiming that something is classified when it's not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
Tell me again how classified information was not leaked. It was. You should know this.
How can I tell you how classified information was leaked when apparently there was no classified information leaked? Tell me what was classified. That names were unmasked - not classified. That we monitor (spy on) Russian (spies) in this country - not classified.

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
And, I've not even went into the sources/methods that may have been exposed by leaking this stuff.
You don't know how we got the information. Was it an old fashioned wiretap? Was it microwaves or lasers on windows? Was it satellites intercepting cellphones? Was it any of a dozen other possible methods? Was it all of the above? You don't know, neither do I, so obviously sources and methods were not leaked.
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Old 06-17-2017, 04:19 PM   #43
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I guess I'm trying to understand if you are being deliberately obtuse (I think that's the case) or you're not very bright.

The names were unmasked and attributed to the conversation. Otherwise, just the leaking of an unmasked name would be, well, nothing. It would look like this: Michael Flynn. With no context or anything. I mean, you get that right? Please tell me you get that. So, yes, the conversation was leaked, too. That's a fact. And, that conversation - because of the mere fact it was collected is classified. So, you're wrong.

What makes a lot of information classified is how it was collected. Again, you should know this. You really should - if you worked in the intell community. There is a ton of things classified that I see in open source. But, as you should know, you can't confirm or deny it. I remember when I was just starting out in the classified world and thinking, "why is this classified" and being told "because, we have this source/method that we used to get it". COMINT is a no brainer as far as why it is classified. Especially, if say a foreign adversary used tradecraft to avoid being tapped and found out through the NY Times that he/she was indeed, still tapped. That would tell them their method of communication was compromised, for example.

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of COMINT. And, likely of the entire intelligence world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by billxl883
Sorry, but the fact that the names were unmasked is still not classified. The conversations are classified, the methods are classified. But unmasking is something that is known and done often. Procedures for the unmasking were followed. Your guys got caught with their hand in the cookie jar and you'll do anything to distract from that, but you're claiming that something is classified when it's not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
Tell me again how classified information was not leaked. It was. You should know this.
How can I tell you how classified information was leaked when apparently there was no classified information leaked? Tell me what was classified. That names were unmasked - not classified. That we monitor (spy on) Russian (spies) in this country - not classified.

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
And, I've not even went into the sources/methods that may have been exposed by leaking this stuff.
You don't know how we got the information. Was it an old fashioned wiretap? Was it microwaves or lasers on windows? Was it satellites intercepting cellphones? Was it any of a dozen other possible methods? Was it all of the above? You don't know, neither do I, so obviously sources and methods were not leaked.
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Old 06-18-2017, 05:51 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by infantrystud
I guess I'm trying to understand if you are being deliberately obtuse (I think that's the case) or you're not very bright.

The names were unmasked and attributed to the conversation. Otherwise, just the leaking of an unmasked name would be, well, nothing. It would look like this: Michael Flynn. With no context or anything. I mean, you get that right? Please tell me you get that. So, yes, the conversation was leaked, too. That's a fact. And, that conversation - because of the mere fact it was collected is classified. So, you're wrong.
Christ, you're turning into another daft.

To claim that the mere fact that something was collected makes it classified is just plain wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
What makes a lot of information classified is how it was collected. Again, you should know this. You really should - if you worked in the intell community. There is a ton of things classified that I see in open source. But, as you should know, you can't confirm or deny it. I remember when I was just starting out in the classified world and thinking, "why is this classified" and being told "because, we have this source/method that we used to get it". COMINT is a no brainer as far as why it is classified. Especially, if say a foreign adversary used tradecraft to avoid being tapped and found out through the NY Times that he/she was indeed, still tapped. That would tell them their method of communication was compromised, for example.

I get it. You want it to be classified so that it fits your agenda. Your boys got caught with their hands dirty then lied about it, and like any good Trumpeteer you're going to try to put the blame elsewhere, scream LEAK LEAK LEAK, blame the media, or whatever else you have to do to avoid having the dear leader look bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of COMINT. And, likely of the entire intelligence world.
Quite the contrary, I've been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Yours seems to come from Tom Clancy novels.
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Old 06-18-2017, 08:03 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billxl883
Christ, you're turning into another daft.

To claim that the mere fact that something was collected makes it classified is just plain wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
What makes a lot of information classified is how it was collected. Again, you should know this. You really should - if you worked in the intell community. There is a ton of things classified that I see in open source. But, as you should know, you can't confirm or deny it. I remember when I was just starting out in the classified world and thinking, "why is this classified" and being told "because, we have this source/method that we used to get it". COMINT is a no brainer as far as why it is classified. Especially, if say a foreign adversary used tradecraft to avoid being tapped and found out through the NY Times that he/she was indeed, still tapped. That would tell them their method of communication was compromised, for example.

I get it. You want it to be classified so that it fits your agenda. Your boys got caught with their hands dirty then lied about it, and like any good Trumpeteer you're going to try to put the blame elsewhere, scream LEAK LEAK LEAK, blame the media, or whatever else you have to do to avoid having the dear leader look bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of COMINT. And, likely of the entire intelligence world.
Quite the contrary, I've been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Yours seems to come from Tom Clancy novels.

Haha you try to mock me when once again you can't even understand simple English. Go back reread what he said and try again. You didn't even half way understand what he said.

Also bill this right here is a prime example of why I rip apart almost every single one your arguments. I'm not even involved in this one, but yet you still feel the need to include a jab at me. Are you really that petty. You proably are since you don't even have the respect to address me by my correct screen name. You change it into mockery. You are simply just sad.

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Old 06-18-2017, 02:45 PM   #46
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You would rather argue with me and be wrong - then agree and be right. You should really think about that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by billxl883
Christ, you're turning into another daft.

To claim that the mere fact that something was collected makes it classified is just plain wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
What makes a lot of information classified is how it was collected. Again, you should know this. You really should - if you worked in the intell community. There is a ton of things classified that I see in open source. But, as you should know, you can't confirm or deny it. I remember when I was just starting out in the classified world and thinking, "why is this classified" and being told "because, we have this source/method that we used to get it". COMINT is a no brainer as far as why it is classified. Especially, if say a foreign adversary used tradecraft to avoid being tapped and found out through the NY Times that he/she was indeed, still tapped. That would tell them their method of communication was compromised, for example.

I get it. You want it to be classified so that it fits your agenda. Your boys got caught with their hands dirty then lied about it, and like any good Trumpeteer you're going to try to put the blame elsewhere, scream LEAK LEAK LEAK, blame the media, or whatever else you have to do to avoid having the dear leader look bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of COMINT. And, likely of the entire intelligence world.
Quite the contrary, I've been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Yours seems to come from Tom Clancy novels.
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Old 06-19-2017, 08:58 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
You would rather argue with me and be wrong - then agree and be right. You should really think about that.
No, I don't agree with you because you are wrong. It has nothing to do with wanting to argue.

You want it to be a leak of classified information because that deflects from the fact that your boys were caught. I get that. Unmasking of names is normal and the fact that names were unmasked is not classified, at least you have seemed to give up that line of reasoning.

Your first post in this thread claimed that Trump's communications were tapped, you even bolded it. That's not true and we all know that. The Ruskies were monitored and Trump's boys were caught up. Your assertion that COMINT was leaked is no more valid than your claim that Trump's phones were tapped.
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Old 06-19-2017, 09:00 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by 65daft
Haha you try to mock me when once again you can't even understand simple English. Go back reread what he said and try again. You didn't even half way understand what he said.

Also bill this right here is a prime example of why I rip apart almost every single one your arguments. I'm not even involved in this one, but yet you still feel the need to include a jab at me. Are you really that petty. You proably are since you don't even have the respect to address me by my correct screen name. You change it into mockery. You are simply just sad.
Ignored.... Because that's what your post is worthy of.
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:50 AM   #49
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I don't know what to tell you. You're wrong.

Communications intelligence was leaked to the press. That's how we know Mike Flynn spoke to the Russian ambassador. That is a crime.

Because you don't like Trump or Flynn doesn't make it okay.

Also, unmasking of names and leaking it to the press is not normal and is a crime because it is classified information. It is a violation of 18 U.S. Code § 798 - Disclosure of classified information - a FELONY to knowingly and willfully communicate classified material to an unauthorized person. click to show

It could also be a violation of 50 U.S. Code § 1809.


It is harder to prove that the actual unmasking to to authorized parties in the intelligence community are illegal. Because there has to be intent. You can prove it though - if the intent was purely political versus for national security.

But, one thing is for certain - you can't leak communications intelligence to the press. So, you are wrong about that. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

But, hey, let's hope Trump takes a page from Obama's book and investigates this aggressively. Remember when Obama went after reporters in 2013?

I remember you being vehemently against Obama conducting this investigation. Oh wait, no I don't. Predictably, if Trump does the very same thing Obama did, it'll be a huge story.

If it weren't for double standards, the left would have no standards. LOL


Quote:
Originally Posted by billxl883
Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
You would rather argue with me and be wrong - then agree and be right. You should really think about that.
No, I don't agree with you because you are wrong. It has nothing to do with wanting to argue.

You want it to be a leak of classified information because that deflects from the fact that your boys were caught. I get that. Unmasking of names is normal and the fact that names were unmasked is not classified, at least you have seemed to give up that line of reasoning.

Your first post in this thread claimed that Trump's communications were tapped, you even bolded it. That's not true and we all know that. The Ruskies were monitored and Trump's boys were caught up. Your assertion that COMINT was leaked is no more valid than your claim that Trump's phones were tapped.
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Old 06-20-2017, 06:52 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by infantrystud
I remember you being vehemently against Obama conducting this investigation. Oh wait, no I don't. Predictably, if Trump does the very same thing Obama did, it'll be a huge story.

If it weren't for double standards, the left would have no standards. LOL
You're right, I wasn't against the Obama administration conducting that investigation. And I'm not against the current administration conducting one either. I say investigate the hell out of all aspects of it and find out what happened. It's you who wants to deflect and concentrate on the leaks rather than the underlying problems.

It was a big story when Obama did it, it would also be a big story if Trump does it.

Any double standard is on your part.
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Old 06-20-2017, 06:58 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65daft
Haha you try to mock me when once again you can't even understand simple English. Go back reread what he said and try again. You didn't even half way understand what he said.

Also bill this right here is a prime example of why I rip apart almost every single one your arguments. I'm not even involved in this one, but yet you still feel the need to include a jab at me. Are you really that petty. You proably are since you don't even have the respect to address me by my correct screen name. You change it into mockery. You are simply just sad.
Ignored.... Because that's what your post is worthy of.

Saying your going to ignore it is the opposite of ignoring it. Whats the matter did I hit to close to home for ya . You can't even defend your actions, because you know they are sad.
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Old 06-20-2017, 07:03 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by 65daft
Saying your going to ignore it is the opposite of ignoring it. Whats the matter did I hit to close to home for ya . You can't even defend your actions, because you know they are sad.
You're acting like a child who can't stand to be ignored.
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Old 06-20-2017, 12:17 PM   #53
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Obama went after leakers... Because, you know, that's a crime. Try to read the links next time. It might help guide your argument.

Well, at least you stopped denying that leaking COMINT was a crime. That's a start.

Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
I remember you being vehemently against Obama conducting this investigation. Oh wait, no I don't. Predictably, if Trump does the very same thing Obama did, it'll be a huge story.

If it weren't for double standards, the left would have no standards. LOL
You're right, I wasn't against the Obama administration conducting that investigation. And I'm not against the current administration conducting one either. I say investigate the hell out of all aspects of it and find out what happened. It's you who wants to deflect and concentrate on the leaks rather than the underlying problems.

It was a big story when Obama did it, it would also be a big story if Trump does it.

Any double standard is on your part.
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Old 06-20-2017, 11:42 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by billxl883
Quote:
Originally Posted by 65daft
Saying your going to ignore it is the opposite of ignoring it. Whats the matter did I hit to close to home for ya . You can't even defend your actions, because you know they are sad.
You're acting like a child who can't stand to be ignored.

Says the guy that put a jab in on me on a conversation I'm not even involved in. Says the guy that tries to deny shit he said, even in the same thread. Say the guy who typical final response is a break down into mindless insults and rants. Says the guy that even when proven he said something stills denies he said it. Yep I'm the child here. Look in the mirror bill your sad. If you would buck up and own up to some the shit you do, you would be half way decent to have an argument with.
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Old 06-21-2017, 02:57 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by infantrystud
Obama went after leakers... Because, you know, that's a crime. Try to read the links next time. It might help guide your argument.

Well, at least you stopped denying that leaking COMINT was a crime. That's a start.
I read the links. Try reading my response instead of just pulling a daft and pretending I said what I didn't. I never said or implied that leaking COMINT isn't a crime. I've argued that what was leaked was not COMINT. Next time you want to make a strawman argument, don't be so obvious about it.
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Old 06-21-2017, 02:59 AM   #56
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Says the guy that put a jab in on me on a conversation I'm not even involved in. Says the guy that tries to deny shit he said, even in the same thread. Say the guy who typical final response is a break down into mindless insults and rants. Says the guy that even when proven he said something stills denies he said it. Yep I'm the child here. Look in the mirror bill your sad. If you would buck up and own up to some the shit you do, you would be half way decent to have an argument with.
Your post only proves that you are all the things you accuse others of being.
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Old 06-21-2017, 03:13 AM   #57
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COMINT was leaked. Its all over the news. How else do we know that General Flynn spoke with the Russian ambassador?

Were you an officer or enlisted in the USAF?

Quote:
Originally Posted by billxl883
Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
Obama went after leakers... Because, you know, that's a crime. Try to read the links next time. It might help guide your argument.

Well, at least you stopped denying that leaking COMINT was a crime. That's a start.
I read the links. Try reading my response instead of just pulling a daft and pretending I said what I didn't. I never said or implied that leaking COMINT isn't a crime. I've argued that what was leaked was not COMINT. Next time you want to make a strawman argument, don't be so obvious about it.
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Old 06-21-2017, 07:14 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65dart
Says the guy that put a jab in on me on a conversation I'm not even involved in. Says the guy that tries to deny shit he said, even in the same thread. Say the guy who typical final response is a break down into mindless insults and rants. Says the guy that even when proven he said something stills denies he said it. Yep I'm the child here. Look in the mirror bill your sad. If you would buck up and own up to some the shit you do, you would be half way decent to have an argument with.
Your post only proves that you are all the things you accuse others of being.

What are you twelve. Why don't you go ahead and call me icky poo pants why your at it. Again you show how sad you are.
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Old 06-22-2017, 02:38 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billxl883
Your post only proves that you are all the things you accuse others of being.

What are you twelve. Why don't you go ahead and call me icky poo pants why your at it. Again you show how sad you are.
This is interesting. Too bad you don't understand what you just did.

Keep it up, You're showing your colors.
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Old 06-22-2017, 02:41 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by infantrystud
COMINT was leaked. Its all over the news. How else do we know that General Flynn spoke with the Russian ambassador?

Were you an officer or enlisted in the USAF?

Quote:
Originally Posted by billxl883
I read the links. Try reading my response instead of just pulling a daft and pretending I said what I didn't. I never said or implied that leaking COMINT isn't a crime. I've argued that what was leaked was not COMINT. Next time you want to make a strawman argument, don't be so obvious about it.
I know what COMINT is, and what was leaked was not COMINT. Leaking of the fact that his name was unmasked and that he was picked up by COMINT does not make the leak COMINT material.

Enlisted.
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