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Old 04-07-2017, 11:21 AM   #1
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Old 04-07-2017, 12:41 PM   #2
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http://www.politifact.com/punditfact...y-same-jimmy-/

This is why these "fact checking" sites are basically a crap shoot. They publish an article that can't really say, "this Jimmy Carter business about him banning Iranians is a lie" because it wasn't.

Instead, the write an editorial piece defending Carter's actions. How is that fact checking?

And, this is why people are so up in arms about fake news. The hypocrisy of the media. And, at times, blatant cheerleading under the guise of "hey guys, we are playing it right down the middle". No they aren't.

They should have just wrote, "Democrats good, Republicans bad" or "Jimmy Carter good, Trump bad cuz we said so".
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Old 04-07-2017, 02:18 PM   #3
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Just so I understand:

Iranian government pulls shit causing a response = Muslims r bad because I say so I'm going to ban "certain countries" just cuz not a Muslim ban though (wink wink nudge nudge)

(And this is ignoring the horseshit from the image that said he banned "Shia Muslims" outright)
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Old 04-07-2017, 02:25 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact...y-same-jimmy-/

This is why these "fact checking" sites are basically a crap shoot. They publish an article that can't really say, "this Jimmy Carter business about him banning Iranians is a lie" because it wasn't.

Instead, the write an editorial piece defending Carter's actions. How is that fact checking?
Because they're providing all the facts and context around Carter's decision, rather than just leaving it at "What Carter did is just like what Trump's doing now". You can't even say they're wrong, so you're just going to get super-triggered by their audacity in explaining the truth.
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Old 04-07-2017, 10:03 PM   #5
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Except that the actual EO Trump signed mentions nothing about a Muslim ban.

A key differentiating point they use is the following:

• Carter acted against Iranian nationals, not an entire religion.

Like Carter, he also is using where a person comes from as the basis. Unlike Carter, he isn't forcing people to show up to immigration offices.

I actually agree with what Carter did. I'm just saying that if all we did was swap people out - the libs would be ok with it. And, because it is Trump, people get all triggered.


Quote:
Originally Posted by darthbob88
Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact...y-same-jimmy-/

This is why these "fact checking" sites are basically a crap shoot. They publish an article that can't really say, "this Jimmy Carter business about him banning Iranians is a lie" because it wasn't.

Instead, the write an editorial piece defending Carter's actions. How is that fact checking?
Because they're providing all the facts and context around Carter's decision, rather than just leaving it at "What Carter did is just like what Trump's doing now". You can't even say they're wrong, so you're just going to get super-triggered by their audacity in explaining the truth.
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Old 04-07-2017, 10:06 PM   #6
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Again, I realize you're triggered and shit.

But, Carter did, in effect ban Shia Muslims from Iran. 90% of the population of Iran is Shia. Oh, he didn't specify that in the EO?

Neither does Trump's but it doesn't stop you from saying he is banning Muslims.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ShuGuy
Just so I understand:

Iranian government pulls shit causing a response = Muslims r bad because I say so I'm going to ban "certain countries" just cuz not a Muslim ban though (wink wink nudge nudge)

(And this is ignoring the horseshit from the image that said he banned "Shia Muslims" outright)
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Old 04-08-2017, 03:32 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trigglet
Again, I realize you're triggered and shit.

But, Carter did, in effect ban Shia Muslims from Iran. 90% of the population of Iran is Shia. Oh, he didn't specify that in the EO?

Neither does Trump's but it doesn't stop you from saying he is banning Muslims.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ShuGuy
Just so I understand:

Iranian government pulls shit causing a response = Muslims r bad because I say so I'm going to ban "certain countries" just cuz not a Muslim ban though (wink wink nudge nudge)

(And this is ignoring the horseshit from the image that said he banned "Shia Muslims" outright)

Carter never campaigned on banning all Muslims, and there was a direct cause and effect relationship to Iran and his actions. Just stop. I know false equivalency is your bread and butter, but this is pathetic.
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Old 04-08-2017, 04:38 PM   #8
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False equivalency.

The Iran thing happened toward the end of his failed presidency. And he so mishandled the Iranian hostage thing that he couldn't very well campaign on the sanctions that he placed on Iran because they were not working. Iran still had the hostages.

Carter did ban Shia Muslims from Iran. Sure, he didn't write it up that way but that's what his policies effectively did. Where was the outrage? Oh, no outrage?

Trump wants to ban people from countries in which we cannot properly vet and its a "Muslim ban". Outrage from the left.

LOL, like I said, you're triggered.

Oh, remember when the triggered freaked out when Trump mentioned what was happening in Sweden with immigrant crime? Look what happened in Sweden yesterday. He must be a psychic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShuGuy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trigglet
Again, I realize you're triggered and shit.

But, Carter did, in effect ban Shia Muslims from Iran. 90% of the population of Iran is Shia. Oh, he didn't specify that in the EO?

Neither does Trump's but it doesn't stop you from saying he is banning Muslims.




Carter never campaigned on banning all Muslims, and there was a direct cause and effect relationship to Iran and his actions. Just stop. I know false equivalency is your bread and butter, but this is pathetic.
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Old 04-08-2017, 07:43 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
I actually agree with what Carter did. I'm just saying that if all we did was swap people out - the libs would be ok with it. And, because it is Trump, people get all triggered.
Right, and you're basing this argument on the premise that Trump's and Carter's EOs are basically the same thing, when as that article points out, they really aren't. Apart from the whole "Carter banned Iranians while Trump wants to ban Muslims" objection, Carter kept the humanitarian exemption open, and continued to accept refugees from Iran. If Trump had ordered the intake of Syrian refugees terrorists continue, you and the rest of his supporters would have raised hell. And as I keep arguing, Carter and Obama had temporary travel bans in response to immediate problems. If Trump proposed to lower the ban and start letting dangerous Muslims back into the country, again, you'll pitch a fit. You can't just "swap people out" and assume they'd do the exact same thing, because they won't. Different people would do things in vitally different ways. Turning this argument back on you again, Republicans were OK with the Heritage Foundation's proposal for quasi-universal healthcare through a subsidized individual mandate, so why were they so outraged at the PPACA, which was basically the same thing?
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Old 04-09-2017, 04:34 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
... Carter did ban Shia Muslims from Iran. Sure, he didn't write it up that way but that's what his policies effectively did. Where was the outrage? Oh, no outrage? ...
Carter did not campaign on banning Muslims.

More importantly, Carter's ban was for people from one country regardless of religion. There was no provision for religious minorities (i.e. Christians)

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
... Oh, remember when the triggered freaked out when Trump mentioned what was happening in Sweden with immigrant crime? Look what happened in Sweden yesterday. He must be a psychic. ...
Freaked out is probably too strong. How about severely criticized? He was severely critizied because he lied (nothing new there). Something happening yesterday does not make his statement of two weeks ago true.
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Old 04-09-2017, 05:05 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billxl883
Freaked out is probably too strong. How about severely criticized? He was severely critizied because he lied (nothing new there). Something happening yesterday does not make his statement of two weeks ago true.
Excuse me. The lies were on the part of the media. Trump had referred to a show on Fox about the migrants problems in Sweden and both his audience and the media knew it. The media just took the chance to misinterpret and point the finger.
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Old 04-09-2017, 08:59 PM   #12
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Yep, exactly!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASHSON
Quote:
Originally Posted by billxl883
Freaked out is probably too strong. How about severely criticized? He was severely critizied because he lied (nothing new there). Something happening yesterday does not make his statement of two weeks ago true.
Excuse me. The lies were on the part of the media. Trump had referred to a show on Fox about the migrants problems in Sweden and both his audience and the media knew it. The media just took the chance to misinterpret and point the finger.
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Old 04-09-2017, 09:02 PM   #13
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Carter banned Shia Muslims from Iran. That was the net effect of what he did. Oh, but, he didn't state it in the EO?

Same with Trump. It is not in his EO that he is "banning Muslims". If he were, then he'd have included a lot of other predominately Muslim countries.

Again, Carter = Good; Trump = Bad in the liberal mind.

In my mind, they were both right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by billxl883
Carter did not campaign on banning Muslims.

More importantly, Carter's ban was for people from one country regardless of religion. There was no provision for religious minorities (i.e. Christians)

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
... Oh, remember when the triggered freaked out when Trump mentioned what was happening in Sweden with immigrant crime? Look what happened in Sweden yesterday. He must be a psychic. ...
Freaked out is probably too strong. How about severely criticized? He was severely critizied because he lied (nothing new there). Something happening yesterday does not make his statement of two weeks ago true.
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Old 04-10-2017, 04:58 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASHSON
Excuse me. The lies were on the part of the media. Trump had referred to a show on Fox about the migrants problems in Sweden and both his audience and the media knew it. The media just took the chance to misinterpret and point the finger.
Too bad you keep buying into the right wing media spin. Here's the full transcript

Trump said "you look at what's happening last night in Sweden" without reference to Fox News. And "last night" obviously refers to some supposed incident, not the immigrant problem in general. Then when it was shown there was no incident "last night" he blamed it on Fox. Is this the kind of president anybody wants? One who gets his intelligence from TV news, or at least believes it because he saw it on Fox? I'm sorry that the man you support is a fool, I'm sorry we have almost four more years of this kind of "leadership".
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Old 04-10-2017, 05:15 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
Carter banned Shia Muslims from Iran. That was the net effect of what he did. Oh, but, he didn't state it in the EO?

Same with Trump. It is not in his EO that he is "banning Muslims". If he were, then he'd have included a lot of other predominately Muslim countries.

Again, Carter = Good; Trump = Bad in the liberal mind.

In my mind, they were both right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by billxl883
Carter did not campaign on banning Muslims.

More importantly, Carter's ban was for people from one country regardless of religion. There was no provision for religious minorities (i.e. Christians)


Freaked out is probably too strong. How about severely criticized? He was severely critizied because he lied (nothing new there). Something happening yesterday does not make his statement of two weeks ago true.
You can spin it all you want but facts are facts, Carter's was not religion based. Trump's was to fulfill a campaign promise made to his xenophobic voters. We can agree that he didn't fulfill that promise because everyone with a brain knew that banning a religion would not pass muster, so he did the best he could. Guiliani said Trump asked him to put a commission together and show him how to do it legally. Start at 3:00 on this clip. The commission could not find a way to ban Muslims legally so they based the ban on "danger". If you're naive enough to think that banning people from countries where no one has committed a terrorist act in the US, but not from countries whose citizens have, is based on "danger", then I know of a bridge you can buy cheap.
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Old 04-10-2017, 11:48 AM   #16
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The ban is based on the same countries that the Obama administration's DHS had listed as areas of concern. It wasn't based on banning Muslims. If it were, I'm sure he'd have included many more Muslim countries - which he didn't. You know that and I know that. Both the Obama administration and the incoming Trump administration realize that those countries make it difficult to vet potential refugees as I've outlined on here numerous times.

If you call Trump's ban a "ban on Muslims" then certainly Carter's was a "ban on Shia Muslims". Although, in reality, neither Trump nor Carter were doing any such thing.

But, since liberalism is a mental disease, I do understand the twisting and turning that people go through in order to spin in their way.

Take for example, the recent nominee of Justice Gorsuch. The Democrats were the ones that originally changed the rules yet they were crying foul when the Republicans used the same rules to get Gorsuch on the bench. And, the Dims like to claim that Obama should have been able to nominate Garland to Scalia's seat last year. But, as Biden grand-standed in 1992 and prepped to do the very same thing that happened in 2016: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...t-nominations/

The Dims like to tinker with the rules and traditions but don't much like it when it blows up in their faces.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
Carter banned Shia Muslims from Iran. That was the net effect of what he did. Oh, but, he didn't state it in the EO?

Same with Trump. It is not in his EO that he is "banning Muslims". If he were, then he'd have included a lot of other predominately Muslim countries.

Again, Carter = Good; Trump = Bad in the liberal mind.

In my mind, they were both right.

You can spin it all you want but facts are facts, Carter's was not religion based. Trump's was to fulfill a campaign promise made to his xenophobic voters. We can agree that he didn't fulfill that promise because everyone with a brain knew that banning a religion would not pass muster, so he did the best he could. Guiliani said Trump asked him to put a commission together and show him how to do it legally. Start at 3:00 on this clip. The commission could not find a way to ban Muslims legally so they based the ban on "danger". If you're naive enough to think that banning people from countries where no one has committed a terrorist act in the US, but not from countries whose citizens have, is based on "danger", then I know of a bridge you can buy cheap.
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Old 04-10-2017, 11:56 AM   #17
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Watched your Fox News link.... So, this is what you and the left are clinging to when you claim it is a Muslim ban? For real? Guiliani explains how it is NOT a Muslim ban and based on the threat and danger. And, this is what these nutball judges on the 9th circuit as basing it on?



Quote:
Originally Posted by billxl883
Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
Carter banned Shia Muslims from Iran. That was the net effect of what he did. Oh, but, he didn't state it in the EO?

Same with Trump. It is not in his EO that he is "banning Muslims". If he were, then he'd have included a lot of other predominately Muslim countries.

Again, Carter = Good; Trump = Bad in the liberal mind.

In my mind, they were both right.

You can spin it all you want but facts are facts, Carter's was not religion based. Trump's was to fulfill a campaign promise made to his xenophobic voters. We can agree that he didn't fulfill that promise because everyone with a brain knew that banning a religion would not pass muster, so he did the best he could. Guiliani said Trump asked him to put a commission together and show him how to do it legally. Start at 3:00 on this clip. The commission could not find a way to ban Muslims legally so they based the ban on "danger". If you're naive enough to think that banning people from countries where no one has committed a terrorist act in the US, but not from countries whose citizens have, is based on "danger", then I know of a bridge you can buy cheap.
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Old 04-10-2017, 07:37 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billxl883
Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
Carter banned Shia Muslims from Iran. That was the net effect of what he did. Oh, but, he didn't state it in the EO?

Same with Trump. It is not in his EO that he is "banning Muslims". If he were, then he'd have included a lot of other predominately Muslim countries.

Again, Carter = Good; Trump = Bad in the liberal mind.

In my mind, they were both right.

You can spin it all you want but facts are facts, Carter's was not religion based. Trump's was to fulfill a campaign promise made to his xenophobic voters. We can agree that he didn't fulfill that promise because everyone with a brain knew that banning a religion would not pass muster, so he did the best he could. Guiliani said Trump asked him to put a commission together and show him how to do it legally. Start at 3:00 on this clip. The commission could not find a way to ban Muslims legally so they based the ban on "danger". If you're naive enough to think that banning people from countries where no one has committed a terrorist act in the US, but not from countries whose citizens have, is based on "danger", then I know of a bridge you can buy cheap.

You do realize the president can legaly ban muslims. The president can ban a group of people that is considered a danger to the us citizens, and or country. The whole freedom of religion does not applt because these people are not citizens of the US. The great left seems to think the rights of our constitution extends to non citizens.

You would proably also be shocked to know that a business owner can also ban whole groups of people. Such as if Mexican gangs are a problem in an area, a store owner can ban all Mexicans from his store.

The left wants keep screaming freedom of this and rights for that, except for their actually blocking rights that are in the constitution. They only want to follow the laws and rules that agree with them.
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Old 04-11-2017, 05:07 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
Watched your Fox News link.... So, this is what you and the left are clinging to when you claim it is a Muslim ban? For real? Guiliani explains how it is NOT a Muslim ban and based on the threat and danger. And, this is what these nutball judges on the 9th circuit as basing it on?
You're becoming as crazy as daft. Guiliani's words speak for themselves, your twisting of what he said also speaks for itself.
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Old 04-11-2017, 05:12 AM   #20
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You do realize the president can legaly ban muslims. The president can ban a group of people that is considered a danger to the us citizens, and or country. The whole freedom of religion does not applt because these people are not citizens of the US. The great left seems to think the rights of our constitution extends to non citizens.
How typical of you to change the subject when you can't logically argue your side. The question was not whether he could legally ban Muslims. That's for the courts to decide, not some internet cowboy on a politics forum. The question was how similar Carter's ban on Iranians was to Trumps.
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