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Old 04-05-2017, 01:07 PM   #1
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Other Left or right?

Trying to follow the postings/rebuttals I get confused (not a strange feeling at my age) as to what is represented as left or right politically. Sometimes it seems like the same. Would someone put together five bullet points under a left and right headings that best reflect the political philosophy of those sides.

Thanks
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Old 04-05-2017, 02:18 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oppenoppen
Trying to follow the postings/rebuttals I get confused (not a strange feeling at my age) as to what is represented as left or right politically. Sometimes it seems like the same. Would someone put together five bullet points under a left and right headings that best reflect the political philosophy of those sides.

Thanks


Hard to do anymore. Being Fascist was once considered far right, now the biggest fascists are on the left. Silly humans.
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Old 04-05-2017, 02:32 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oppenoppen
Trying to follow the postings/rebuttals I get confused (not a strange feeling at my age) as to what is represented as left or right politically. Sometimes it seems like the same. Would someone put together five bullet points under a left and right headings that best reflect the political philosophy of those sides.

Thanks
Left:
* Strong belief in an obligation to provide public charity
* Diversity, tolerance, multi-culturalism
* (Going with the above) Rights for minorities and marginalized groups.
* Support for egalitarianism, ranging up to full communism and levelling.
* Advocacy for strong central government to provide all of the above.

Right:
* Strong advocacy for personal choice and options
* Belief in individual sovereignty and self-sufficiency
* Belief in individual consequences.
* Belief in free market to provide most of the above
* Opposition to strong central government, which could hinder any of the above.

To some extent, you can say that the Left is about providing and guaranteeing certain rights, while the Right is about permitting and allowing certain rights.
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Old 04-05-2017, 02:34 PM   #4
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Old 04-05-2017, 11:53 PM   #5
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An excellent summation Darth. A few problems when these are taken too far.
Left:
* Strong belief in an obligation to provide public charity
How much charity should be provided? How do you differentiate between need and greed?
* Diversity, tolerance, multi-culturalism
Leads to a divisive society where a healthy society must pull together.
* (Going with the above) Rights for minorities and marginalized groups.
But are these rights at the expense of the perceived non-minorities?
* Support for egalitarianism, ranging up to full communism and levelling.
Equality of opportunity does not mean equality of outcome. Some people are better than others and can be expected to do better in life. If you don't blame the man who fails for failing, why blame the man who succeeds for succeeding?
* Advocacy for strong central government to provide all of the above.
And what is the result when strong government morphs into authoritarianism? Rules that make no sense to anyone but the government.

Right:
* Strong advocacy for personal choice and options
But where does social conscience fit in?
* Belief in individual sovereignty and self-sufficiency
If taken too far can lead to anarchy. The rule of law must prevail.
* Belief in individual consequences.
* Belief in free market to provide most of the above
* Opposition to strong central government, which could hinder any of the above.
A strong central government can also bolster all of the above. It all depends on whether the government leans to the left or right. I think it would be fairer to say that the right leans towards a smaller government, not a weaker one. Too much government is an overhead on society that is generally non-productive and must be supported by your taxes.

The biggest current problem is that the left is vigorously and often violently pushing its agenda. They believe in group think and if you don't you are evil. The right are mainly individuals, pushing their agenda but doing it individually, rather than as a group. This has led to the left having greater power, letting them capture various institutions and twisting them to their cause. The most notable examples would be the Media and Government bureaucracy.
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Old 04-06-2017, 12:09 AM   #6
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Left and right have gotten harder and harder to define as most on right have become more centered with changing times. And left has gone farther left, or at least the far left has become more vocal. Making many from the right have left tendencies and people from the left have right tendencies.
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Old 04-06-2017, 12:50 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthbob88
Right:
* Strong advocacy for personal choice and options
Except when it comes to abortion, religion, and homosexuals or transgendered people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthbob88
* Belief in individual sovereignty and self-sufficiency
Except when it comes to abortion, religion, and homosexuals or transgendered people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthbob88
* Belief in individual consequences.
Except when it comes to abortion, religion, and homosexuals or transgendered people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthbob88
To some extent, you can say [...] the Right is about permitting and allowing certain rights.
While simultaneously excluding all rights for anyone who isn't a white rich straight Christian.
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Old 04-06-2017, 12:53 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthbob88
Left:
* Strong belief in an obligation to provide public charity
Often to extremes, and at the expense of the majority.
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthbob88
* Diversity, tolerance, multi-culturalism
Often to extremes, and at the expense of the majority.
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthbob88
* (Going with the above) Rights for minorities and marginalized groups.
Often to extremes, and at the expense of the majority.
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthbob88
* Support for egalitarianism
Often to extremes, and at the expense of the majority.
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthbob88
To some extent, you can say that the Left is about providing and guaranteeing certain rights
Which includes rights they made up and no one wants or asked for.
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Old 04-06-2017, 01:39 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASHSON
An excellent summation Darth. A few problems when these are taken too far.
Left:
* Strong belief in an obligation to provide public charity
How much charity should be provided? How do you differentiate between need and greed?
Implementation detail. We're talking ideology, not policy.
Quote:
* Diversity, tolerance, multi-culturalism
Leads to a divisive society where a healthy society must pull together.
Doubtful, considering you also complain about the left pushing GROUPTHINK.
Quote:
* (Going with the above) Rights for minorities and marginalized groups.
But are these rights at the expense of the perceived non-minorities?
Not necessarily, but on the other hand, you're not about to express support for the right to own slaves.
Quote:
* Support for egalitarianism, ranging up to full communism and levelling.
Equality of opportunity does not mean equality of outcome. Some people are better than others and can be expected to do better in life. If you don't blame the man who fails for failing, why blame the man who succeeds for succeeding?
You misunderstand. The object of these ideas is to create equality of opportunity.
Quote:
* Advocacy for strong central government to provide all of the above.
And what is the result when strong government morphs into authoritarianism? Rules that make no sense to anyone but the government.
Then it is not providing all of the above, now, is it?

Quote:
Right:
* Strong advocacy for personal choice and options
But where does social conscience fit in?
Wherever you want it to, or not at all, if you feel so inclined.
Quote:
* Belief in individual sovereignty and self-sufficiency
If taken too far can lead to anarchy. The rule of law must prevail.
Nobody is suggesting we go full Crowley and reduce the USC down to "Do as thou wilt", but conservatives generally lean towards government that limits their freedoms as little as possible. (Of course, the real problem is that in practice conservatives tend to focus almost exclusively on protecting their freedoms, and are willing to ignore or even infringe upon those of non-rich-white-men.)
Quote:
* Opposition to strong central government, which could hinder any of the above.
A strong central government can also bolster all of the above. It all depends on whether the government leans to the left or right. I think it would be fairer to say that the right leans towards a smaller government, not a weaker one. Too much government is an overhead on society that is generally non-productive and must be supported by your taxes.
Would it clarify matters if I replaced that "which could" with "because it would"?
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Facts or GTFO. Anecdotal arguments will be met with mockery.
Food stamps stimulate the economy, tax cuts don't, tax rates are at a historic low, welfare queens are either non-existent or embarrassingly near.
My posting is a PC-Optional zone. I reserve the right to refrain from using PC euphemisms, and to speak my opinion, fucknut.
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Old 04-06-2017, 05:17 AM   #10
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oppenoppen
Trying to follow the postings/rebuttals I get confused (not a strange feeling at my age) as to what is represented as left or right politically. Sometimes it seems like the same. Would someone put together five bullet points under a left and right headings that best reflect the political philosophy of those sides.

Thanks


Hard to do anymore. Being Fascist was once considered far right, now the biggest fascists are on the left. Silly humans.
bunnies will make poor judges of political ideology.
they think a fascist is someone who disagrees with them.
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Old 04-06-2017, 06:49 AM   #11
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fluffybunny


Hard to do anymore. Being Fascist was once considered far right, now the biggest fascists are on the left. Silly humans.
bunnies will make poor judges of political ideology.
they think a fascist is someone who disagrees with them.


Where did I say that? Again you and others, as usual, add things that are not there. I label a fascist as "a way of organizing a society in which they are ruled by a group which controls the lives of the people in which people are not allowed to disagree, usually by violence"

The left has had violent protests and wish to stop free speech and a free democratic outcome that does not support their views.

And as I have said many times before, I disagree and agree with points on both sides. I do not agree with the left's current tactics which are fascist in nature. I had a discussion with a lefty snowflake who blamed everything wrong in the world on white males. She said all the leaders who are white males should be killed. Now take out white male and put in Jew. Sounds like a fascist to me from the 1930's Germany. Same rhetoric.

I disagree with the right's religious bias, anti-science, intolerance stances. Both sides are too extreme these days.
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