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Old 03-28-2017, 12:14 PM   #121
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Darthbob hasn't told you about his idea to just print more money?

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Originally Posted by 65dart
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Originally Posted by darthbob88
Eh. The things you're complaining about are frankly negligible, and I dearly wish the NIH would start taking the Rothschild approach to budget complaints, except that for the most part it'd lose more money on stamps than checks. No, the only thing that needs trimming, apart from the tax expenditures I'm already complaining about, is some of the fat in the military budget, and that's still mostly negligible. We don't need more cuts, we just need to actually pay for the things we want government to do.

You seriously don't think we need cuts. You do realize we have committees to over see committees, to over see the comittee that over see a program. We have people basically creating jobs to get their cronies jobs. On and on there is wasteful spending everywhere.
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Old 03-28-2017, 12:28 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by infantrystud
Darthbob hasn't told you about his idea to just print more money?

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Originally Posted by 65dart

You seriously don't think we need cuts. You do realize we have committees to over see committees, to over see the comittee that over see a program. We have people basically creating jobs to get their cronies jobs. On and on there is wasteful spending everywhere.

He has and I honestly thought he was leading up to a punch line. But after this discussion I can see that there isn't going to be one. The whole concept of a limit of money seems to be beyond him. Sure we can tax the rich more but to what point, their pockets are not endless. The goverments money is not endless. Eventually someone will have to pay for the wreckless spending and you know it won't be the rich. So all the stuff that darth thinks is so great because it helps the poor, he actually has no clue it is going to make it worse for them.
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Old 03-28-2017, 10:37 PM   #123
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The rich's money is not endless. But, Darthbob is right, they can afford to pay more. How much more is the big question. Because at some point they just turn around and let shit run downhill. What is that point? Not sure.

I like the idea of incentivizing the "rich" and corporations to pay people more. I like the idea of saying, "fine, you want to pay your CEO $1 billion a year and your lowest paid employees minimum wage? No tax breaks for you". I believe some kind of ratio ought to be considered comparing CEO pay to the lowest paid worker pay.

Just my two cents on that

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Originally Posted by 65dart
Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
Darthbob hasn't told you about his idea to just print more money?


He has and I honestly thought he was leading up to a punch line. But after this discussion I can see that there isn't going to be one. The whole concept of a limit of money seems to be beyond him. Sure we can tax the rich more but to what point, their pockets are not endless. The goverments money is not endless. Eventually someone will have to pay for the wreckless spending and you know it won't be the rich. So all the stuff that darth thinks is so great because it helps the poor, he actually has no clue it is going to make it worse for them.
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Old 03-29-2017, 12:05 AM   #124
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The rich's money is not endless. But, Darthbob is right, they can afford to pay more. How much more is the big question. Because at some point they just turn around and let shit run downhill. What is that point? Not sure.

I like the idea of incentivizing the "rich" and corporations to pay people more. I like the idea of saying, "fine, you want to pay your CEO $1 billion a year and your lowest paid employees minimum wage? No tax breaks for you". I believe some kind of ratio ought to be considered comparing CEO pay to the lowest paid worker pay.

Just my two cents on that

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Originally Posted by 65dart

He has and I honestly thought he was leading up to a punch line. But after this discussion I can see that there isn't going to be one. The whole concept of a limit of money seems to be beyond him. Sure we can tax the rich more but to what point, their pockets are not endless. The goverments money is not endless. Eventually someone will have to pay for the wreckless spending and you know it won't be the rich. So all the stuff that darth thinks is so great because it helps the poor, he actually has no clue it is going to make it worse for them.


I have two problems with that. One is no one can tell me why ceo make too much money, other than its not fair that their rich and I'm not. No one can tell me if a ceo wage is actually justified. The other is some jobs are only worth minium wage. Some jobs are actually worth less than minium wage. The whole point of having employees, so if what they earn a company does not justify higher wages I don't feel it is fair to expect a company to go broke to give better wages.

But basically it looks like your for closing the income wage gap. Which I would be for also if they used honest numbers. They say there is a large gap, but when they do those number they go purely off income they do not include the benifits that employees recieve. So the percieved income gap is actually much less than what they lead people to believe.
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Old 03-29-2017, 01:30 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by infantrystud
The rich's money is not endless. But, Darthbob is right, they can afford to pay more. How much more is the big question. Because at some point they just turn around and let shit run downhill. What is that point? Not sure.
I'm not sure either, but I suspect it's more than we need to balance the budget.
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I like the idea of incentivizing the "rich" and corporations to pay people more. I like the idea of saying, "fine, you want to pay your CEO $1 billion a year and your lowest paid employees minimum wage? No tax breaks for you". I believe some kind of ratio ought to be considered comparing CEO pay to the lowest paid worker pay.

Just my two cents on that
And like I told you last time you suggested that, if you incentivize corporations to fix matters on a company-by-company basis, they'll fix things on a company-by-company basis, if at all, which might make a dent at the national level. No, you've got to fix the problems across the board, which means you need to apply incentives across the board. Unless and until we achieve some acceptable level of prosperity for the working class, we repeal some tax breaks for everybody. This gives the individual incentive as your plan does, and it also creates external pressures; if all these other rich people are paying more taxes because Wal-Mart refuses to pay its employees worth a damn, they are going to apply a lot more pressure on Wal-Mart than either boycotts or the lost tax breaks alone could manage.
(Now you're going to object because we shouldn't punish some corporations that aren't fucking over their workers, and to that I say, welcome to respectability politics.)
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Old 03-29-2017, 02:15 AM   #126
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It always amazes me how some people seem to think the solution to all problems is to increase taxes.
Remove a tax-break, you say. Interpreted, this means tax them more.
Just how much tax is a fair thing?

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The pay scale for any job is influenced heavily by supply and demand. Top dollar jobs usually fall into one of three categories. First, is if the job is particularly unpleasant or dangerous ... then, you have to pay extra just to get someone to be willing to do it. Second are the jobs where a particular skill or talent is called for. Entertainers and athletes fall into this category, but so do the jobs that require a high degree of training, like doctors.
The third category for high pay are those who have a high degree of responsibility ... whose decisions involve a lot of money and/or affect a lot of people. If a worker in a corporation makes a mistake, it means a day's or a week's work may have to be redone ... or, perhaps, a client is lost. The president of the same corporation may only make three or four decisions a year, but those decisions may be to open or close six plants or to begin or discontinue an entire line of products. If that person makes a mistake, it could put hundreds or thousands of people out of work. Responsibility of that level is frightening and wearing, and the person willing to hold the bag deserves a higher degree of compensation.

Within each profession, there's a pecking order with the best or most experienced getting the highest rates, while the newer, lower workers settle for starting wages. Popular entertainers earn more than relative unknowns who are still building a following. Supervisors and managers get more than those reporting to them, since they have to have both the necessary skills of the job plus the responsibility of organizing and overseeing others. This is the natural order of a job force, and it provides incentive for new workers to stick with a job and to try to move up in the order.

This is why CEO's get paid so much. The company will live or die on their decisions. They hold the responsibility and get paid for being willing to hold that responsibility. They might have smarter people working for them but are those smarter people capable of holding the responsibility? You get what you pay for.
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Old 03-29-2017, 02:36 AM   #127
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I once had the president of a company tell me, over lunch, that you could never pay salespeople too much because they're the ones that brought in the business. Needless to say... he came up out of the sales department.
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Old 03-29-2017, 05:00 AM   #128
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I once had the president of a company tell me, over lunch, that you could never pay salespeople too much because they're the ones that brought in the business. Needless to say... he came up out of the sales department.
That president was wrong. It doesn't matter how much business sales can bring in by promising the sun, the moon, the stars, it's engineering that has to come through and build the rockets. The idea's right, though. At any given company, there are two kinds of people. You either ship, or you're overhead. Engineering ships, as, I am prepared to concede, does Sales, sometimes. IT, Accounting, and Facilities are overhead. And CxOs are way overhead.
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Old 03-29-2017, 06:52 AM   #129
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I once had the president of a company tell me, over lunch, that you could never pay salespeople too much because they're the ones that brought in the business. Needless to say... he came up out of the sales department.
That president was wrong. It doesn't matter how much business sales can bring in by promising the sun, the moon, the stars, it's engineering that has to come through and build the rockets. The idea's right, though. At any given company, there are two kinds of people. You either ship, or you're overhead. Engineering ships, as, I am prepared to concede, does Sales, sometimes. IT, Accounting, and Facilities are overhead. And CxOs are way overhead.

Darth I love your way of thinking. Ok so we got an engineer, with no facility, no money, no supplies, so he is going to design and build something how. Oh thats right the cxo's get everything togther like facilties, supplies, investors. ect.

As for sales man and engineers they go hand and hand, you can have an engineer building all kinds of things, but if a sales man isn't creating a market for it, it will never sale. And vise versa if a salse man has nothing to sell he is out of a job.
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Old 03-30-2017, 05:31 AM   #130
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That president was wrong. It doesn't matter how much business sales can bring in by promising the sun, the moon, the stars, it's engineering that has to come through and build the rockets. The idea's right, though. At any given company, there are two kinds of people. You either ship, or you're overhead. Engineering ships, as, I am prepared to concede, does Sales, sometimes. IT, Accounting, and Facilities are overhead. And CxOs are way overhead.
Yeah, he was wrong. Even if you truly believe that sales is the absolute most important function, if you pay them significantly more than the competition is paying their salespeople then you're throwing away the money. Like I said, he came from sales.

That would be true of any corporate function. If you pay them much more than the competition is paying for the same job then you're tossing those greenbacks away.
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Old 03-30-2017, 06:00 AM   #131
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That president was wrong. It doesn't matter how much business sales can bring in by promising the sun, the moon, the stars, it's engineering that has to come through and build the rockets. The idea's right, though. At any given company, there are two kinds of people. You either ship, or you're overhead. Engineering ships, as, I am prepared to concede, does Sales, sometimes. IT, Accounting, and Facilities are overhead. And CxOs are way overhead.
Yeah, he was wrong. Even if you truly believe that sales is the absolute most important function, if you pay them significantly more than the competition is paying their salespeople then you're throwing away the money. Like I said, he came from sales.

That would be true of any corporate function. If you pay them much more than the competition is paying for the same job then you're tossing those greenbacks away.
This is only true if your salespeople are not also significantly more effective than the competition's, enough to justify their salary.
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Old 03-30-2017, 06:44 AM   #132
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Yeah, he was wrong. Even if you truly believe that sales is the absolute most important function, if you pay them significantly more than the competition is paying their salespeople then you're throwing away the money. Like I said, he came from sales.

That would be true of any corporate function. If you pay them much more than the competition is paying for the same job then you're tossing those greenbacks away.
This is only true if your salespeople are not also significantly more effective than the competition's, enough to justify their salary.

This is why if a salesman is any good at his job will work commission and forego an hourly wage.
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