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Old 04-28-2017, 07:45 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthbob88
Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
No, I understand it. You've made it pretty clear.

Considering you seem to think I'm only willing to defend freedom of speech for ideas I agree with, when I have explicitly said that I support the right to express ideas I disagree with, no, I obviously haven't made it clear.
E: Admittedly, you'd be a lot closer to my actual position if you merely add a third category of speech; ideas I agree with, hate speech, and ideas that I don't agree with but which are also not too hateful for me to tolerate.

Darth you adding a third classification just proves your against free speech. Its not your lot in life to pick and choose what speech is hateful.

For example have you ever talked to someone that is really strong into the church, Dear lord they say I'm living in sin, they say they will pray for me. They try to coerce me into going to church so I can be saved, ect ect. That is pretty dam hateful speech of my lifestyle I choose. But as it goes that is not seen as hate speech because the person is just preaching their belifis and ideas of their church.

Each person out there is going to be offended differently, so as you can see for you to say I'm all for free speech except for the stuff I find hateful, just shows you are not for free speech. You are only for things that agree with you, and things you don't like but could tolerate to have around you, that is not free speech.
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Old 04-28-2017, 10:29 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthbob88
Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrystud
No, I understand it. You've made it pretty clear.

Considering you seem to think I'm only willing to defend freedom of speech for ideas I agree with, when I have explicitly said that I support the right to express ideas I disagree with, no, I obviously haven't made it clear.
E: Admittedly, you'd be a lot closer to my actual position if you merely add a third category of speech; ideas I agree with, hate speech, and ideas that I don't agree with but which are also not too hateful for me to tolerate.

I've also read/heard some very hateful speech directed towards Republicans and the 1% but I doubt that things like that will be counted as 'hate speech' anytime soon.

Of course there has to be a line, and we're NEVER going to agree on where that line is/should be. That's not the issue here IMO.

If Berkley wants to set a policy that no speaker who is to the right of some arbitrary standard will be invited to speak there then let them do that. Let them put their bias out there for all to see and live with the consequences. That’s not what happened. What happened was that a group of students who haven’t progressed beyond the emotional age of 6 or so threw a huge tantrum and the University gave in and bought them their candy bar.

Behavior like that is unacceptable. It doesn’t matter if it’s a group of rabid Trump supporters or a group of liberal college students. If a CEO can lose their job because they support a given political position then these students should find themselves no longer enrolled at Berkley. Threats of violence should NOT be tolerated, let alone rewarded by caving in to the demands of those who threaten.
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Old 04-29-2017, 06:45 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karter42
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthbob88
Considering you seem to think I'm only willing to defend freedom of speech for ideas I agree with, when I have explicitly said that I support the right to express ideas I disagree with, no, I obviously haven't made it clear.
E: Admittedly, you'd be a lot closer to my actual position if you merely add a third category of speech; ideas I agree with, hate speech, and ideas that I don't agree with but which are also not too hateful for me to tolerate.

I've also read/heard some very hateful speech directed towards Republicans and the 1% but I doubt that things like that will be counted as 'hate speech' anytime soon.
I'd put that down to the lack of danger involved in such speech. Wake me when people start actually decorating lampposts with investment bankers, instead of just talking about it.
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Behavior like that is unacceptable. It doesn’t matter if it’s a group of rabid Trump supporters or a group of liberal college students. If a CEO can lose their job because they support a given political position then these students should find themselves no longer enrolled at Berkley. Threats of violence should NOT be tolerated, let alone rewarded by caving in to the demands of those who threaten.
That's not what happened. Brendan Eich was fired because he brought bad publicity to the Mozilla Foundation, not (just) for his political beliefs. Berkeley might expel these students, but TBF I wouldn't be surprised if kicking students out for political activism would hurt their image more than letting them stay.
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Old 04-29-2017, 08:22 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthbob88
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I've also read/heard some very hateful speech directed towards Republicans and the 1% but I doubt that things like that will be counted as 'hate speech' anytime soon.
I'd put that down to the lack of danger involved in such speech. Wake me when people start actually decorating lampposts with investment bankers, instead of just talking about it.
Quote:
Behavior like that is unacceptable. It doesn’t matter if it’s a group of rabid Trump supporters or a group of liberal college students. If a CEO can lose their job because they support a given political position then these students should find themselves no longer enrolled at Berkley. Threats of violence should NOT be tolerated, let alone rewarded by caving in to the demands of those who threaten.
That's not what happened. Brendan Eich was fired because he brought bad publicity to the Mozilla Foundation, not (just) for his political beliefs. Berkeley might expel these students, but TBF I wouldn't be surprised if kicking students out for political activism would hurt their image more than letting them stay.

Say what. The violent protest, they cancelled rose parade due to threats, ect ect. Try again darth. Your once again trying to rationalize it because it agrees with you.

And ha political activism. That is outright terroism. Threats, violence, destruction of property is not political activism. But your right their image would probably be hurt, because as it becoming more and more clear, your willing to silence and shut down any opinions that don't agree with yours. Which is the stance many on the left have taken.
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Old 05-01-2017, 12:34 PM   #65
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http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/26/us/bra...ifornia-rally/

People have gotten beaten and stabbed though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darthbob88
Quote:
Originally Posted by karter42

I've also read/heard some very hateful speech directed towards Republicans and the 1% but I doubt that things like that will be counted as 'hate speech' anytime soon.
I'd put that down to the lack of danger involved in such speech. Wake me when people start actually decorating lampposts with investment bankers, instead of just talking about it.
Quote:
Behavior like that is unacceptable. It doesn’t matter if it’s a group of rabid Trump supporters or a group of liberal college students. If a CEO can lose their job because they support a given political position then these students should find themselves no longer enrolled at Berkley. Threats of violence should NOT be tolerated, let alone rewarded by caving in to the demands of those who threaten.
That's not what happened. Brendan Eich was fired because he brought bad publicity to the Mozilla Foundation, not (just) for his political beliefs. Berkeley might expel these students, but TBF I wouldn't be surprised if kicking students out for political activism would hurt their image more than letting them stay.
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Old 05-04-2017, 04:51 AM   #66
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A friend of my in Academia pointed out these two articles. To me, the second one is the more troubling since it involves educated people who should (in theory) be above knee-jerk reactions to hot button issues.

I’m very concerned by the things that are going on in our institutes of higher learning.

http://www.dartblog.com/image/Intimi...on%20Haidt.pdf

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...paign=buff er
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Old 05-04-2017, 12:06 PM   #67
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The left likes to position itself as the sole arbiters of open, honest free speech and debate and inclusiveness.

That train left the building a long time ago. Today the left does not want free speech. They want to shout down anyone that doesn't agree with their way of thinking and then label the speech they are trying to shout down as "hate speech". Anything they don't like is labeled "hate speech" whether it truly is or not.

And, as for inclusiveness? HA! Many on the left go as far as to do things like tell pro-life women they aren't allowed to march in a woman's day parade. That's not very inclusive. Or, tell pro-life Democrats there is no place for them in the Democrat Party. Again, not very inconclusive. Or a black protest organizer demanding white people go to the back of the march a la "get to the back of the bus". Certainly not inclusive.

This snowflake generation is quite troubling. But, in a weird way, I'm glad because it is going to lead to the left's downfall, I think. Maybe downfall is a bad word. But, maybe it will lead to the extreme left having less of a voice because their voice is not inclusive and in many cases just plain evil.

Quote:
Originally Posted by karter42
A friend of my in Academia pointed out these two articles. To me, the second one is the more troubling since it involves educated people who should (in theory) be above knee-jerk reactions to hot button issues.

I’m very concerned by the things that are going on in our institutes of higher learning.

http://www.dartblog.com/image/Intimi...on%20Haidt.pdf

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...paign=buff er
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